johnhizzle
Active member
Is there really a difference? I downloaded Neoscene and I really can't tell if there is a difference between the two formats. I'm looking to see which one would provide the best image and which is best for color grading.
Cineform or Pro Res 422
- Thread starter johnhizzle
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Both are excellent, both will hold up to grading EASILY at a broadcast or indie film level. The Cineform files will be slightly smaller. If you have to collaborate with other people, ProRes might be easier since support is built into Quicktime so no need to install more software.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Has ProRes been migrated to Windows? And if so, is it just part of the standard Windows Quicktime, or is something else needed? Also is there a 'vendor/proprietary' independent codec that is as good? I did down load the DNxHD Avid codec, which has both Mac and Windows versions, and is 'free', but I've not really used it.
Since I'm strictly Mac these days for my video workflow, Windows support is not all that important to me, but for others it may be.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
ProRes is viewable on PC, it's now part of quicktime, but PC's cannot create ProRes. DNxHD is every inch the quality of ProRes (unless we are talking ProRes4444), writable PC and Mac, and free.
Gang_Green
Active member
I would say cineform is better format to stick to because if your on a Mac and you need to give your footage to someone on a PC, they can still edit that footage.
Proress files might open on a PC in quicktime, but they can not be edited or rendered to another format. (at least in my experience).
The Cineform NeoScene codec is free, and you can take cineform files into Premiere or Final cut and back and forth. Not the case with ProRess. And then you can also render a cineform file to any other format in the editing program.
Proress files might open on a PC in quicktime, but they can not be edited or rendered to another format. (at least in my experience).
The Cineform NeoScene codec is free, and you can take cineform files into Premiere or Final cut and back and forth. Not the case with ProRess. And then you can also render a cineform file to any other format in the editing program.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Also true with essentially every quicktime format I can think of other than AIC.
Uh wrong. I've been cutting ProRes on the PC for several years now.
I think you need to do a bit more research here. The only thing free about the Neoscene codec is the decoder. Encoding Cineform will certainly cost money. And every Mac and PC program I am aware of (other than maybe FCE) will open, cut, and transcode ProRes. Do it all the time.
HKO
Well-known member
First light colour ( part of the Neo family of Cineform products ) grading kicks the pants of programs costing thousands. Great for getting all your footage looking homogenous. It's a life saver. Try it. You will be pleasantly surprised and it is even under the hood so to speak. In other words no rendering and the control is magnificant. You can even fix white balance issues with one click. So from a quality perspective they may be more or less in the same ballpark but the added value Firstlight gives you makes Cineform a no brainer - and it works fine on a MAC.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Such as?
I can do this in Vegas or Avid. And it doesn't cost me any more money.
I can do the same in Vegas and Avid. In fact, in Avid I can even match colors from shot to shot with three clicks. Very handy.
Perhaps true for some workflows. But certainly not a no-brainer in mine. People seem to like it though, so that's cool. Just adds another step for me, and another transcode.
Have they upgraded the mac version of first light to be the same as the PC version? I love the grading in cineform for speed however , I find alot of controls lacking. All I need is a 3 color wheel type with darks mid highlight control.
I have neo HD and FCP
Ben_B
Veteran
Want to reiterate PerroneFord's statements. PCs are fully capable of decoding (reading, and working with) ProRes, as long as they have Quicktime installed. If you need to move your files back to ProRes when you're done, say you're collaborating with someone on a mac, there are a number of crossplatform formats you can use which they can then convert to ProRes on their end. I have a fast PC that I use for Maya and After Effects work instead of and in addition to my macs, and I usually just export finished work as PNG sequences and convert to ProRes on the mac. This is also because Maya plays really nice with PNG sequences.
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Cineform, slightly cleaner / better image, smaller file size, harder to work with in FCP. If you want to use a 2nd monitor and do a few other things, you have to use your cineform files on a prores sequence with the render codec as prores - so rerender everything in pro res. Then when you output, re-render everything in cineform.
Prores, slightly noiser, bigger file size, easy to work with in FCP. Hard drives are cheap. Editing in a non- mac supported codec is frustrating. I use pro res. I convert via NeoScene, but to prores instead of cinefom.
Prores, slightly noiser, bigger file size, easy to work with in FCP. Hard drives are cheap. Editing in a non- mac supported codec is frustrating. I use pro res. I convert via NeoScene, but to prores instead of cinefom.
Ben_B
Veteran
ProRes uses a gamma of 2.2...isn't that ideal for HDTVs? Anyway you can disable gamma correction and have some leeway.
From FCP Manual:
johnhizzle
Active member
Wow I didn't know about that little trick, I went in and changed my sequence to Pro-Res and The Render settings to Prores and the timeline plays back flawlessly. No more annoying re render everytime you drop a clip down! Thanks
Neoscene doesn´t have First Light, sadly.
As much as I love NeoScene for "transcode, brains off until export", that first light app would be very nice but it isn´t included. It ships first with NeoHD and higher.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I will say that Neoscene does have the one advantage of automatically removing 3:2 pulldown and doing a proper upconversion of interlaced 4:2:0 chroma to 4:2:2 chroma. So if you have to shoot 1080i/p on your GH1 then Neoscene does offer a faster solution. Other methods will do this but you have to go through a few extra steps.
True true, but you can use Neoscene to go to ProRes and still get the proper pulldown and and chroma repair. In fact, it's the only one step way I'd do it. I'd never just bring it in through FCP. Which brings you back to the initial question - ProRes or Cineform - since you can get both with with proper pulldown and chroma repair via Neoscene. Again, both are comparable. Just up to you whether you want to choose smaller file size, a bit cleaner image, somewhat harder to work with (cineform) or slightly noisier (you prob have to A/B it to tell), larger file size, easiest to work with (pro res).