Cine lenses vs Nikon/still lenses

L

LMGvideo

Active member
It seems like a lot of the lens discussion here has concentrated on using the still lenese like the Nikkors. From what I've gathered so far, the cine lenses like Cookes breathe less and are better designed for the needs of motion image gathering. I know that cost is also a factor.

I'd like to get a better understanding of all of the options and what types of cine lenses are worth looking into. I come from a video background, so I'm still coming up to speed on primes. So here goes...
What kind of primes will work best with Red?
Can you use 16mm, Super 16, 35 and Super 35 (hoping I'm getting my terminology right)?
What kind of mounts do I need to keep in mind relative to these types of lenses?
In real world terms, what do I gain by using these over the still lenses?
What do I need to know about Cooke, Angenieux, Ziess and Arri (any more brands?) lenses.

OK, there's a good starting point, hoping this thread can be a place to centralize this information in one place.

Yes, I'm going to keep using the search tool to find out what's already been posted, but like I say, trying to put the "primer" information in one spot.
 
The reason nikkor glass is such a viable option is the high end nikon sensors have about the same resolution as RED, and a nearly identical sensor size. Therefor, we know if a lens works on a high end nikon, like the D2X (12.5 mpxl, with a size of something like 23mm x 14mm) and delivers a sharp image, it'll do the same for RED.

There are several things to remember:
-Primes always give a sharper image than a zoom lens, or at least thats the conventional wisdom,

-nikon lenses are always going to be cheaper than cooke or zeiss cine lenses because they are mass produced so much more,

-if you are ever in doubt about sharpness of a lens you can through it on a D2x and test it easy

As for coverage, you can use any nikon lens with any format, super16, 35, S35, because DX (nikon) sensors are the same size as S35, and most nikon lenses are designed to work with 35mm (24mm x 36mm) format. WAY bigger than S35.

the thing you have to look out for is the lens in question MUST have manual aperture control, manual zoom, and manual focus control.

canon lenses are out because, as i understand, none of them have manual aperture control

The biggest difference between still and cine is breathing during filming. Still cameras don't care if a lens breaths because the picture is only one frame long. Test out a lens at a local camera place to see how 'loose' the focus barrel is. The more firm, the less breathing. Older lenses tend to be more firm because back in the day they used less plastics, but make sure to test the sharpness before you buy.

Cooke and Zeiss make great lenses, but they often cost more than a car for a single prime, angenieux is cheaper, and unfortunately my only experience with them is lousy lenses on old 16mm cameras, so i can't vouch for them.

If anyone were to say that Zeiss and Cooke are head and shoulders above the best nikon lenses, i'd have to argue. to me, i just can't justify the difference in price. I'd rather have every lens in nikon's catalogue than three or four zeiss primes. i think i could make a better film with the former.

Hope that was helpful.

-John
RED #613
www.myspace.com/ShootRed
 
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I agree that the image quality from the Nikkors will hold up very well, maybe even as well as Zeiss and Cooke lenses. Especially since the modern computer designed zoom lenses are intended for use with digital sensors Vs. the cinema lenses designed for film. The primary difference is the construction and breathing. Focus gears will need to be added to Nikkors for use with follow focus and other accessories but that is not that much of an issue. Breathing is certainly annoying but any good cam op can hide it in a move as long as it's not a lock off. It's also important to know that breathing usually occurs less in longer lenses so it's manageable.
I seriously doubt any critical movie gower will say... "That was a great story but the breathing really killed it for me."
E.
 
Evin, what's the breathing like on a 17-35mm Nikkor zoom? I know you've listed this as a great lens to use but have never personally used it.
 
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