Choppy panning -1080 24p

G

gbadgley

Active member
Hi, I've been looking at many clips shot on U tube with the AF100. And just now, the "Dust bowl" video with the wheel of fire flowers. Virtually, all of these show choppy panning. Now, I know this is an issue with this sensor and we should be following the guidelines for 24 frames a second as established by the Society of cinematographers. But as a new person to this camera I don't know for sure if I should we be expecting some choppiness on the slow pans, or maybe it is something to do with how Vimeo, and Youtube show the clips, because to my eye they all seem choppy.

Gary
 
It is not an issue with the sensor, it is an issue with the frame rate. faster panning requires a faster framerate or you will see strobing, which is the choppiness you are refering to. It does not just happen with the AF100 sensor, it happens with every camera shooting 24fps, even film cameras. Read Barry's book where he goes into detail on strobing, and ways to minimize it (such as max pan speeds, which are slower than you think, or tracking the subject with your pan so the subject does not move in the frame, only the background, which will distract the viewer from the strobing), or you can shoot in 60fps which will eliminate it as well.
 
Strobing

Strobing

Yes, I have read the section, and I understand completely. But as I said on virtually all the panning I have seen there is strobing. So, are all these shooters not getting it, or is it the way Youtube or vimeo display the video?
 
Pull your camera out and shoot some footage at 24p and 60i. Pan slow, pan fast and judge for yourself. Maybe try 30p as well. Its really a ascetics thing so if you hate it stay away from 24p and shoot 60i.
 
I have a canon scoopic 16 film camera that my students shoot on. The clips come back from the lab looking choppy at 24fps and this camera has no sensor :)
 
The AF100's rendering of 24p motion is exactly like every other camera's rendering of 24p motion. It's not a problem in the camera.

If you want to see some alarmingly choppy strobing, go watch "Captain America" in the theaters. There were two instances where it was so bad I was literally shocked.
 
Barry_Green said:
The AF100's rendering of 24p motion is exactly like every other camera's rendering of 24p motion. It's not a problem in the camera.

If you want to see some alarmingly choppy strobing, go watch "Captain America" in the theaters. There were two instances where it was so bad I was literally shocked.
Click to expand...

Was that the 35mm or the 5D footage :-)

I would be surprised if it were the film because the ASC cinematographers have those
pan/distance tables drilled in their brains.

jeff

ps: http://eos-magazine-news.blogspot.com/2011/08/captain-america-shot-by-eos-5d-mark-ii.html
 
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Must have been 35mm, because it wasn't any weird POV shot or anything. But it wouldn't make any difference anyway --24fps is 24fps, whether it's from film or a DSLR. Move it too fast, and it'll strobe.
 
Wow, reading the title of this thread felt like listening to an 80'ies song on the radio. Nostalgic to the early dvx days! :)

(EDIT- its a valid question by the poster and has already been addressed in the posts prior to mine, nothing against the question in itself!)
 
Wasn't Captain America shot on Genesis? There was this article on the FX and how frustrated the FX guys were because they didn't have much to play with.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
Wasn't Captain America shot on Genesis? There was this article on the FX and how frustrated the FX guys were because they didn't have much to play with.
Click to expand...

Looks like you're right

Captain America was shot digitally using the Panavision Genesis, a Super-35 HD (1920x1080) motion picture camera.
Though the picture was shot at the standard 24 frame-per-second (23.98) base many of the shots in the movie were
recorded with a slow shutter speed. The standard shutter speed for 24fps is 1/48th of a second and can also be expressed
as a 180-degree shutter. It seems that almost half of the scenes / shots in Captain America were recorded at a 270 or even
360-degree shutter. This has the effect of increasing exposure and boosting the camera's sensitivity but comes
with a price: motion blur. It is this increased motion blur that you're seeing. And personally it's rather disappointing
to see this kind of sloppiness in such a high-profile studio film.

[h=3]Source(s):[/h] Captain America end credits include "Shot with Panavision Genesis Cameras"
 
All of you are wrong.Yes even Barry.
I suspected this long time ago cause on old film cams stuttering is not so noticeable because shutter works more like a triangle peak than like a square peak in digital cameras.
In film cameras shutter is capturing from the moment it get hit by light but in digital cameras sensor is turned on and off, *because of this motion blur is sharper and different.
http://www.tessive.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oemvYcKwgI
 
Barry_Green said:
Must have been 35mm, because it wasn't any weird POV shot or anything. But it wouldn't make any difference anyway --24fps is 24fps, whether it's from film or a DSLR. Move it too fast, and it'll strobe.
Click to expand...

Or move it REALLY fast, than the blur is so big there's no strobe. ;)

And that's pretty much the norm with 24fps, either slow or fast, not the middle ground.

However, I've never seen regular audience complaining about strobing pans, so if there's not an excessive amount of them I guess it's ok.
 
bwwd said:
All of you are wrong.Yes even Barry.
I suspected this long time ago cause on old film cams stuttering is not so noticeable because shutter works more like a triangle peak than like a square peak in digital cameras.
In film cameras shutter is capturing from the moment it get hit by light but in digital cameras sensor is turned on and off, *because of this motion blur is sharper and different.
http://www.tessive.com/
Click to expand...

The strobe is the same at comparable shutter speeds. This has been confirmed again and again.
 
Its camera model dependant, some movies strobe and some dont, older film cams render movement different than new ones, old musicals from hollywood look different motionwise than "lethal weapon" for example.
Ive seen test with dvx and 16mm film but this was test with dvx and 16mm cam, not with 35mm from 60s and from 90s.
Stuff shot on film strobes less cause shape of motion blur is different than in digital cams.
Watching "seven" right now and it doesnt strobe on contrasty scenes and fast movement where DSLR would strobe for example with 180 degree shutter.
Here is good read:
http://www.tessive.com/TimeFilterBrochure.pdf?attredirects=0
 
I didn't see where the Tessive system reduces strobing from fast panning. Would be nice to see a before and after with the same camera and fast pan.
 
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