Choosing a Panasonic for Low-budget HD films

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dominichicks

Active member
Hi everybody - My first post - I've been reading the threads on this site tirelessly for months now, while trying to pick my first Panasonic HD cam. I simply cannot decide between:
HVX200
HPX170
HMC150

I'll be shooting short films, in HD. This means I need decent low-light performance, great sound (will use XLR mike), nice slow mo capability, all the cine-gamma settings that have made panasonic the favourite choice for indies - and of course 24p.

I'll be editing on FCP on an intel imac, 2/66ghz, 4gb ram, lots of HD space.

I was initially drawn to the HVX200, but since I'll only be shooting HD, found myself more interested in the HPX170 which seems to be a step up in every way. However, P2 cards worry me - they're very expensive, and I'll need about 2 hours worth of shooting per day before I can upload the footage and clear the cards. Also, word round the campfire suggests the format wont last long.

This brings me to the HMC150 - the main appeal of which is the SD cards which are far more affordable for me. However, I worry about the reduced sound quality - does this only apply to the onboard mike - ie, if I'm using an XLR mike, will there be any difference between it and an HPX170? Also, how easy is the AVCHD format to edit with in FCP? Are there considerable difference in the picture quality/features/lens width (particularly with regards to the indie film look I'm going for)? Essentially I don't want a consumer style experience - I want advanced, professional features and lots of manual control to create the most film-like look - does the HMC150 match up to the HPX170 (or near enough) in this regard?

I don't have a defined budget (I'll simply keep saving until I can afford the best option), but I don't want to spend over the odds when that money could be used on XLR mikes, 35mm lens adapters and lighting...

Naturally I plan to buy Barry Green's book and DVD for whichever I choose, since I don't have experience with the DVX100 or indeed any panasonic cam and will probably have lots to learn! (upgrading from the Canon GL2/XM2).

Your thoughts would be very appreciated.
Thanks, Dom
 
If you don't need a tape drive (which allows only SD) then my suggestion would be the HPX170.

As far as low light goes, HD needs more light than SD. Buy a small on camera
light or a small 3 banger Arri kit for better results. Truthfully, I've had very little
issues with low light situations using both on camera light/light kit.

P2 cards have come down tremendously the past months. The E-Series card
work great and very affordable.

The 24P looks great and the slow motion capabilities are superb.

Can't comment on a Mac or FCP. I use PP CS4 / PC without and issues.

Good luck on your decision.

Mark Dalzell
Las Vegas, NV
 
HPX170 all the way !
As said previously, be aware that 3-CCD cameras (like this one) requires a descent amount of light. (it's under 500 ASA in Cinelike mode)
If you need to shoot in extreme low light conditions, you can check out the Sony's EX series with 3-CMOS chips, but be careful with the rolling shutter and the gello effect.\

P2 Works great with FCP also you may need to dig into easy of offloading tour P2Cards (always the same story) You can use FireWire from the camera (not the best when shooting) you can use a Duel adapter and a Macbook pro with ExpressCard slot (I broke two of those accessories, not the most reliable). The last option is the one I have is a pricey piece of equipment : NextoDI video pro a autonomous HDD with a SxS and P2 card reader integrated.

Your best option would be to test run it, maybe try to rent one for a day, shoot some tests and use it in FCP. Making your own experience is the best way to learn.
 
Thanks everyone for your responses - I know the HPX170 is a great camera... but the SD cards are so much cheaper, and I can't see any discernible reason not to go for the HMC150 for that reason. Even if I went for e-series P2, they're still going to be £400 for 32gb - and I imagine I'll need more than that for a day of shooting?
Dom
 
Hpx170 is definitely the way to go. The cheap and easy way to get into p2 on a mac is get you 2 16gig e- series cards and an older mac PowerBook G4 with built in PCMCIA slot. A PowerBook can be found used for as low as three - four hundred bucks (or less)

With 2 16giggers and PowerBook you can shoot to one card while transferring the other back and forth all day. and unless you have REALLY long takes, you'll never have a problem

I used this method for about three years without a single problem
 
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Other cheap way is to get a Dell mini 10 and go PC only for the offload then dump everything on a mac for editing.
There really is a big difference of quality between the AVCHD on DS cards and DVCPROHD on P2. test it and you'll see. It would be a shame to loose quality over budget. Also maybe you can consider renting a bigger camera for the same budget ...
 
If you can afford it, HPX170 all the way. The HMC150 is generally for users who can't afford the 170. 170 has better format, codec, media, features. That said, if you can't, the 150 is a decent consolation prize.

Dan
 
Agreed 100%. The 170 is the better camera with more features across the board. But the 150 has most of the good stuff at a much lower price point and uses cheaper media. If price is an important consideration, the 150 is a great alternative. But if you can afford it, the 170 just does more.
 
AND - even if you are a mac user, you very much CAN still use a cheap PCMCIA equipped windows laptop for field P2 card offload. just a matter of formatting your external drives the right way.
 
Barry and wgzn, I am a total Mac head so I therefore know nothing about current PC laptops. What would both of you recommend as a good solid Windows laptop (cheep!) that would have a PCMCIA slot? I gave my old PB G4 to my wife and she hates it when I have to steal it now for shoots since my MBP and Duel stopped working when I switched to Leopard.

I could buy wifey a new MB and reclaim my G4 PB but it would undoubtedly be cheaper to just buy a cheap Windows laptop for P2 shoots.

Thanks,

Dan
 
Someone here just posted where he'd found an HP for like $399. That was crazy cheap.

The cheapest way to go right now is to get a Lenovo S10-E netbook and use the Rosewill ExpressCard adapter. That'll cost around $350.

If you want a rock-solid reliable laptop, the Lenovo Thinkpad R can be had for under $700, especially right now with the Black Friday sales.
 
Hi Dan,

I've been using both an HP 8710w and an IBM T43p for offloading P2 cards. Coincidentally, I have a Dell C640 in perfect shape that I was getting ready to sell on eBay. It also has a PCMCIA slot that I used to use for offloading P2 cards. All three of the laptops work perfectly for that function.

Let me know if you might be interested in the Dell and I'll hold off listing it for a bit... It has 768MB of RAM with a 2.0GHz processor and the higher resolution screen with a bunch of accessories. I'd probably let everything go for around $200...

Cheers,

EDIT: Whoops, didn't mean to hijack the thread... To the original poster --> As others have said, HPX170 all the way! I've shot four films for festival entries on mine and it's been a fantastic performer...
 
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Is the Duel Adapter okay to use with OSX 10.5.8 on a MacBook Pro and Final Cut 7.0.1?

Thank you,

Kamau
 
First, I want to say that the HPX is a great camera, and I highly recommend it. Great images...

However, you posted this in the HPX170/HVX200 forum, so people are going to recommend the HPX170 for your needs (since you don't need the DV tape drive). If you posted this in the HMC forums, they would tell you that the extra money is better spent on lights, sound, more storage space, etc.

But I agree with all the people who recommend the HPX170. I don't own one (and can't afford to) but have used it on many occasions and wish I could have one. You won't regret it if you get one.
 
kamau said:
Is the Duel Adapter okay to use with OSX 10.5.8 on a MacBook Pro and Final Cut 7.0.1?

Thank you,

Kamau
Click to expand...

My exact setup and it only works "when it wants to" which is to say, intermitently. Sometimes the P2 card will mount but more than half of the time, it won't. If you look on the Duel site, they say, "OSX 10.5 Leopard, no driver needed" so there is nothing you can change or update. Others have reported that it works fine for them so I don't know exactly what to tell you other than with my setup, under Tiger, it worked 100% of the time and when I updated to Leopard that went to about 30% of the time.

Dan
 
Thank you everyone for your information... Just tried working with the MTS files that the HMC150 produces and it's quite a headache - so pretty sure I'm going to go with P2.

My second challenge is finding a decent price on an HPX170 - weirdly enough there are NONE on ebay or gumtree - and the first hand prices are out of control (£3500?)... whereas HVX200s are around second hand, generally going for around £2000. I've just been offered one for £1600, chinese import but from an english seller (and we'd do the deal face to face so no worries with scam artists)... should I go for it? Anything to bear in mind with chinese imports of this particular camera - is it ntsc or pal? 24 frames or 25?

Many thanks in advance, Dom
 
Dan,

Thank you for your response. I guess I'll have to use the camera to mount the P2 card until Panasonic introduces something to accommodate MacBook Pro users.

Kamau
 
until Panasonic introduces something to accommodate MacBook Pro users.
Click to expand...
is your macbook pro running snow leopard? if not, the duel adapter should work for you. works for me.

if you ARE running snow leopard, buy an old copy of leopard and just erase the drive and go with that.
 
WGZN,

Thank you also for your reply. I chose to not have Snow Leopard installed because of the concerns raised on DVXUSER. I'll try out the Duel Adapter and hope the results mirror yours.

Kamau
 
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