China Censoring Hollywood

[ahalpert]

This will be limiting politically as well as in terms of cultural standards surrounding taboo subjects like sex, etc.

And in contrast, Hollywood regularly produces movies that are critical of American government.

https://www.axios.com/china-censor-hollywood-films-14d77229-b853-4e7a-8635-71191393615d.html

"China's box office is projected to soon surpass the U.S. as the largest film market in the world.

"Access to that market can make or break the success of a major Hollywood film," said James Tager, the author of a recent PEN America report about how the Chinese government censors the U.S. film industry, and how the industry responds by self-censoring.

But the Chinese government tightly controls access to the market, excluding films that include content it dislikes, and blacklisting individual actors or film studios that have previously participated in activities the Chinese Communist Party doesn't like.

The result is an "epidemic of self-censorship" in Hollywood, said Aynne Kokas, assistant professor of media studies at the University of Virginia, and author of the book Hollywood Made in China.

"They are removing content that they worry could upset the Chinese government even before actually proposing it to the Chinese government. And there is pressure to include content that is more flattering to Beijing," said Tager."

"the last time a major Hollywood studio made a movie that presented a vulnerable group as the victim of Chinese government aggression was in 1997 with "Seven Years in Tibet" starring Brad Pitt.

The Chinese government responded by slapping a five-year ban on Columbia TriStar, the production company that made the film — a response that cast a chill over the U.S. movie industry."

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

The Chinese Communist Party has a long history of doing that.

The studio changed the protagonists in the remake of Red Dawn from the Chinese to North Koreans, to making the studio change the the new Top Gun to remove the Taiwan and Japanese flags from the back of Tom Cruise's flight jacket.



Hollywood virtue signals that it is al about human rights and dignity, until it comes time to appease not only the largest market in the world, but the government with the worst track record on human rights.

 

[Josh Bass]

It goes the other way too, where American movies will put content IN to specifically appeal to that market. I can't remember if it was an Iron Man or an Avengers but there's some scene (scientists? Surgery?) that features some well-known-in-China actors that most people here would probably not know.

 

[DLD]

One could make a political joke here but that's frowned upon.

OK, one could make a lot of political jokes here.

 

[Run&Gun]

There are a few old sayings that could be applied here:

Money talks and bull$hit walks

How much is you soul for sale for?


And sadly, most Americans do not care, because there’s probably as much anti-American sentiment here in the US as there is almost anywhere else in the world.

This used to be the greatest nation in the world. We were looked up to and envied by everyone else. Now Americans are being taught to hate America by other “Americans”.

 

[DLD]

The old Soviet Union was a lot more traditional than the US on a number of social issues, including relationships. On other issues, they were as the name implied. There were foreign films in abundance but they were carefully picked and, as the old US TV networks disclaimer went, "edited for time and content". Plus, since the dialog was dubbed anyway, one could just as easily write a politically suitable translation.

Back then, there were a few theaters that had recent foreign films with a live voiceover actor. Those screenings were reserved for the political and the intellectual elite. In order to be admitted inside, one needed a special pass that was given to only a few. Naturally, people tried to bribe their way in, sneak inside through the exit door, etc. Officially, this was sold as a way to peek into the "decadent West". In reality, people just wanted to see he latest Hollywood blockbuster and, to a large extent, to see a modern non-political film.

In the early 1980's, the Soviets began to manufacture a licensed copy of a 1978 top-loading Panasonic VHS. The VCR cost roughly an engineer's annual wage. Except, an engineer couldn't find it in electronics stores because they were, once again, sold to the elites and found their way into private hands at huge markups. However, many contend that VCR's exacerbated the demise of the USSR because the smuggled/pirated video tapes did show what life in the West was really like. And that broke years of the rigid Soviet control over the information available to the Soviet citizenry. It was one thing to listen to Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin on a short wave radio; it was another to watch even something like a "Terminator". This is why the Chinese would rather import mindless action films with no resemblance to reality or the animated children films. Those don't even need to be censored.

 

[ahalpert]

And sadly, most Americans do not care, because there’s probably as much anti-American sentiment here in the US as there is almost anywhere else in the world.

This used to be the greatest nation in the world. We were looked up to and envied by everyone else. Now Americans are being taught to hate America by other “Americans”.

I think criticism and introspection is a good thing. I would rather have more criticism of China than less criticism of the US.

Are we perfect? No country is. We are normal in that way. Pick a flaw of the US and you will find a corresponding issue somewhere else, though it may be a bigger or a smaller problem there. If we can't take an honest look in the mirror, how are we supposed to improve?

 

[mcbob]

I think criticism and introspection is a good thing. I would rather have more criticism of China than less criticism of the US.

Are we perfect? No country is. We are normal in that way. Pick a flaw of the US and you will find a corresponding issue somewhere else, though it may be a bigger or a smaller problem there. If we can't take an honest look in the mirror, how are we supposed to improve?

Well, hey, look at that... something we completely agree upon!

The USA’s long-standing tradition of complaining about those in power without fear of reprisal, imprisonment, cancellation, or disappearance is the very thing that’s kept us great. I praise the Lord daily for political division, because ‘political unity’ throughout world history usually takes the form of an extraordinary number of murdered innocents.

 

[ahalpert]

The Chinese Communist Party has a long history of doing that.

The studio changed the protagonists in the remake of Red Dawn from the Chinese to North Koreans, to making the studio change the the new Top Gun to remove the Taiwan and Japanese flags from the back of Tom Cruise's flight jacket.

View attachment 140355

Hollywood virtue signals that it is al about human rights and dignity, until it comes time to appease not only the largest market in the world, but the government with the worst track record on human rights.

It has been happening for decades, but the balance of power is shifting in their favor as their economy grows larger. By some measures, it is already as large or larger than the US. Elon Musk predicts it will become 2-3x the size. If their cinema attendance levels are maintained and ours decline, it's a foregone conclusion whom Hollywood will primarily service. At least until China uses incentives and regulations to take the majority of film production domestic, as they have with many industries.

 

[ahalpert]

Well, hey, look at that... something we completely agree upon!

The USA’s long-standing tradition of complaining about those in power without fear of reprisal, imprisonment, cancellation, or disappearance is the very thing that’s kept us great. I praise the Lord daily for political division, because ‘political unity’ throughout world history usually takes the form of an extraordinary number of murdered innocents.

In my opinion, many people who disagree politically share the same goals and ideals and only disagree on the diagnosis of the problems and the prescriptions that can solve them.

There are definitely some politically-motivated constraints on free speech in the US by both governmental and corporate actors.

But, by and large, we can breathe easy when we speak our minds and criticize our leaders, for which I am eternally grateful. I do not want that to change.

Incidentally, the ACLU took heat from supposed free-speech advocates for backing Nazi marches in the wake of Charlottesville. But that was a familiar position for them. The ACLU has always stood up for the rights of neo-Nazis to March. Because...denying people the right to peacefully assemble is a Nazi thing to do

 

[OldCorpse]

And this is new how? Those who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat it. You know where there is a nasty precendent of Hollywood bending to the mores of a vicious totalitarian regime? Yes, Nazi Germany and Hollywood. Same exact thing: market forces, hollywood bends to their desires, alters their product and so on. And that had much higher stakes given the anti-Semitism of the Nazis and the Jewish presence in Hollywood:

How the Nazis took control of Hollywood

It's funny to see people beating the drums of the China censorship when exactly the same thing and worse happened in the runup to WWII with Nazi Germany. It's as if we don't remember history

Yep, the almighty dollar. Anti-Semitism you say? You'd think Hollywood of all places would take a strong stand against it. You'd think that, and you'd be wrong. Hello, has Mel Gibson been cancelled or does he still get to make Hollywood movies? There's your answer! And he's not the only one. There's one rule and one rule only: money. Do you have PC views, non-PC views, Oscars to your name, zero skills and talent, are a beloved figure or raging a$$hole - NONE of it matters as long as you make $ you are golden and if you don't make $ then no matter who you are, you're dirt. Same as it ever was. Sell your soul and use the proceeds to pay your mortgage, some souls are cheaper than others so pay for your coffee.

And sadly, most Americans do not care, because there’s probably as much anti-American sentiment here in the US as there is almost anywhere else in the world.

This used to be the greatest nation in the world. We were looked up to and envied by everyone else. Now Americans are being taught to hate America by other “Americans”.

And this is the scariest part - folks thinking that patriotism means anti-Americanism. When the exact opposite is the case. The real patriots are the critics. Those who proclaim "my country right or wrong" eventually destroy the country if they are numerous enough or strong enough - we have the whole world history as proof, from Ancient Rome and before. It's the critics, every time, who lead to reforms that save their nation - all the while vilified as "anti" whatever it may be (Roman, Russian, Chinese, whatnot). When the critics are silenced, either through force or through being shouted down by the more numerous flag wavers ("patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel") your country declines and weakens - we've seen this over and over again. If you have nothing critical to say about your country, you are not looking hard enough. TREASURE YOUR CRITICS - they are your only salvation, the flag wavers and flatteres are your destruction. A lesson you can apply to anything... including your screenplay or film ... since we are on a filmmaking forum. Would you rather have bootlickers as the readers of your screenplay or folks willing to criticize? The critic may be right or may be wrong, that's for the society/artist/target to decide. But only a fool decries the critic.

We used to be the greatest nation in the world - and in many ways still are - precisely because of "critics". Those critics who were expelled from their unappreciative countries and who brought their critical wisdom to America AND MADE IT GREAT. Are we going to repeat the mistakes of those who lost and destroyed their countries and decry our critics? America had freedom of speech and prevailed over the mass patriotism and nationalism of their opponents, Germany, Russia, Japan. We'd be fools not to learn from history - it is exactly our critics who made us strong. The doctor who discovers your disease is to be praised, the critic who protests your flaws is to be praised, the architect you discovers the flaw in the bridge design is to be praised. LONG LIVE THE CRITIC FOR HE MAKES YOU STRONG! Those who do not reform in response to the critic, break down and decline. Those who make reform impossible, make revolution inevitable. Reform, evolve or die. The critic is the canary in the mine. Americans are not being taught to be critics enough.

 

[Run&Gun]

And this is new how? Those who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat it. You know where there is a nasty precendent of Hollywood bending to the mores of a vicious totalitarian regime? Yes, Nazi Germany and Hollywood. Same exact thing: market forces, hollywood bends to their desires, alters their product and so on. And that had much higher stakes given the anti-Semitism of the Nazis and the Jewish presence in Hollywood:

How the Nazis took control of Hollywood

It's funny to see people beating the drums of the China censorship when exactly the same thing and worse happened in the runup to WWII with Nazi Germany. It's as if we don't remember history

Yep, the almighty dollar. Anti-Semitism you say? You'd think Hollywood of all places would take a strong stand against it. You'd think that, and you'd be wrong. Hello, has Mel Gibson been cancelled or does he still get to make Hollywood movies? There's your answer! And he's not the only one. There's one rule and one rule only: money. Do you have PC views, non-PC views, Oscars to your name, zero skills and talent, are a beloved figure or raging a$$hole - NONE of it matters as long as you make $ you are golden and if you don't make $ then no matter who you are, you're dirt. Same as it ever was. Sell your soul and use the proceeds to pay your mortgage, some souls are cheaper than others so pay for your coffee.

And sadly, most Americans do not care, because there’s probably as much anti-American sentiment here in the US as there is almost anywhere else in the world.

This used to be the greatest nation in the world. We were looked up to and envied by everyone else. Now Americans are being taught to hate America by other “Americans”.

And this is the scariest part - folks thinking that patriotism means anti-Americanism. When the exact opposite is the case. The real patriots are the critics. Those who proclaim "my country right or wrong" eventually destroy the country if they are numerous enough or strong enough - we have the whole world history as proof, from Ancient Rome and before. It's the critics, every time, who lead to reforms that save their nation - all the while vilified as "anti" whatever it may be (Roman, Russian, Chinese, whatnot). When the critics are silenced, either through force or through being shouted down by the more numerous flag wavers ("patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel") your country declines and weakens - we've seen this over and over again. If you have nothing critical to say about your country, you are not looking hard enough. TREASURE YOUR CRITICS - they are your only salvation, the flag wavers and flatteres are your destruction. A lesson you can apply to anything... including your screenplay or film ... since we are on a filmmaking forum. Would you rather have bootlickers as the readers of your screenplay or folks willing to criticize? The critic may be right or may be wrong, that's for the society/artist/target to decide. But only a fool decries the critic.

We used to be the greatest nation in the world - and in many ways still are - precisely because of "critics". Those critics who were expelled from their unappreciative countries and who brought their critical wisdom to America AND MADE IT GREAT. Are we going to repeat the mistakes of those who lost and destroyed their countries and decry our critics? America had freedom of speech and prevailed over the mass patriotism and nationalism of their opponents, Germany, Russia, Japan. We'd be fools not to learn from history - it is exactly our critics who made us strong. The doctor who discovers your disease is to be praised, the critic who protests your flaws is to be praised, the architect you discovers the flaw in the bridge design is to be praised. LONG LIVE THE CRITIC FOR HE MAKES YOU STRONG! Those who do not reform in response to the critic, break down and decline. Those who make reform impossible, make revolution inevitable. Reform, evolve or die. The critic is the canary in the mine. Americans are not being taught to be critics enough.

That is one of the largest problems with Hollywood, because no one has the stones to say anything against the boring drivel that is being churned out, because they don't want to lose their jobs.

And so I don't run afoul of the rules here, I'll keep it generic and simply say what I've said before, in slightly different words and phrasing: You can love your country without loving its government.

 

[OldCorpse]

I don't want to break any "no politics" rules, so I'm gonna drop that aspect of it. However I agree with this:

That is one of the largest problems with Hollywood, because no one has the stones to say anything against the boring drivel that is being churned out, because they don't want to lose their jobs.

And that brings up the question what to do about this. Guess what - it also ties in with the OT. How do you avoid bending to China's will and how do you avoid making boring formulaic content? You make your own content without Hollywood participation and without worrying about the Chinese market. One of the blessings and curses of the market is the great fragmentation. There is enough of a niche where you can make a film that doesn't need to show in the Chinese market, or satisfy the demands of the bean counters at the studio. And production costs are dropping. It's easier than ever to produce content by an independent creator. The flip side is that distribution and monetizing your product is where it gets tricky. But it's the only way to break the logjam. You just have to resolve not to pay the ransom - which means going your own way and perhaps not making quite as much money. Ultimately that's healthier for the culture anyway.

 

[Run&Gun]

I don't want to break any "no politics" rules, so I'm gonna drop that aspect of it. However I agree with this:

That is one of the largest problems with Hollywood, because no one has the stones to say anything against the boring drivel that is being churned out, because they don't want to lose their jobs.

And that brings up the question what to do about this. Guess what - it also ties in with the OT. How do you avoid bending to China's will and how do you avoid making boring formulaic content? You make your own content without Hollywood participation and without worrying about the Chinese market. One of the blessings and curses of the market is the great fragmentation. There is enough of a niche where you can make a film that doesn't need to show in the Chinese market, or satisfy the demands of the bean counters at the studio. And production costs are dropping. It's easier than ever to produce content by an independent creator. The flip side is that distribution and monetizing your product is where it gets tricky. But it's the only way to break the logjam. You just have to resolve not to pay the ransom - which means going your own way and perhaps not making quite as much money. Ultimately that's healthier for the culture anyway.

We are definitely in a "golden age" of content. Some of the best movies and shows available are the ones being made by the streamers and cable networks, who aren't afraid to push the boundaries(or at least are much less afraid).

Another old saying that applies: "You can't please all of the people all of the time". But that's exactly what "Hollywood" tries to do with movies designed(destined) for theatrical release. They try to please everyone, so that everyone will come to see them. On the one hand, you kind of can't blame them for wanting to appeal to the widest audience possible, but times have changed and audiences are getting more used to having boundaries pushed and a larger variety to choose from, and that's what they want and expect. Yeah, the Marvel movies are tour de forces with regards to production values, special effects and star power, but I get 100x the excitement watching Yellowstone, which has probably cost less to make over the last three seasons in total than just one Avenger's movie.

 

[DLD]

FWIW, Hitler and Göbbels (Minister of propaganda) really liked Hollywood musicals and UFA (Universum Film AG) ended up creating their own series with a Hungarian born and Hollywood trained Marika Rökk (1913-2004), along with the Dutch born Jonannes Heesters (1903-2011). Hitler himself preferred the Viennese operettas, with his favorite being Franz Lehar's "Die Lustige Witwe" ("The Merry Widow", 1905). His favorite singer Peter Anders, an operatic tenor, was given quite a leeway to perform songs from the "Merry Widow" (which was written by Jewish librettists Leo Rosenstein and Victor Leon Herschfeld) and all the major Emmerich Kalman operettas, which had all Jewish creators (Kalman himself, with Rosentein and Bela Jenbach on "Csardasfürstin", and subsequently Julius Brammer and Alfred Grünwald). Aside of the political and ideological fair controlled by Göbbels himself, there was a large number of the apolitical, lighter productions.

Rökk, Heesters and Anders emerged in the postwar era relatively unscathed. Zarah Leander, a Swedish star who had a big hit in Germany with "Bei mir bist du schön" (until the Nazis realized it was written in Yiddish, which is basically the same as in German, aside of the "shein" / "schön" difference) had a more difficult time after returning back home in Sweden.

All were more popular than a German born US citizen Marlene Dietrich, who was severely disliked by the military for entertaining Americans on the front lines.

After the war, most of the films in German possession fell into the Soviet hands, who promptly overdubbed them into Russian and kept showing musicals like the "Sun Valley Serenade" and "Die Frau meiner Träume" (The Woman of my Dreams", 1944) well into the 1960's. Not so oddly, the German film was in color, the American was not.

 

[ahalpert]

Why is it not so odd that the German film was in color and the American one was not?

 

[DLD]

Why is it not so odd that the German film was in color and the American one was not?

AGFA made the best color film (Agfacolor) of the late 1930's. Plus, UFA was state owned and picked up the cost of he production. AGFA itself was merged by the German government in 1925 into IG Farben with other chemical companies like BASF and Bayer. IG Farben was broken up after the war. For the well known reasons.

And a historical tidbit - AGFA was started by Felix Mendelsohn's son Paul back in 1867. It has gone through the various iterations and is now headquartered in Belgium.

And here's Marika Rökk in the "Woman of my dream". Similarity to lavish Hollywood musicals is not so accidental.

 

[ahalpert]

Dang that's gorgeous. Pretty rough operating on the tripod head though.

What are the well known reasons IG Farben was broken up?

 

[mcbob]

Nazis, chemicals.... I think you can connect the dots

 

[DLD]

Joseph Schmidt was an Austrian (Galicia, now part of Ukraine) born tenor, who's considered one of the all time greats. After 1933, he was banned by the Nazis from living and traveling in Germany but allowed to occasionally perform for the exclusively Jewish audiences. Rumors have it that, on those rare occasions when he was performing in Der Vaterland, the "Jewish audiences" included a large portion of blond, blue eyed and suspiciously Aryan looking characters, who somehow managed to snap up a scarce ticket to see a superstar of the era.

I posted more Schmidt videos in the "listening now" thread.