C500: CES 4k JUGGERNAUT

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lightstrum

Well-known member
I am a 1d c owner and user. I've been wanting to build a full production rig, so, after much hemming and hawing- should I go C300 or C500, Red, Sony f5/55, Blackmagic or just wait awhile longer?- I bought into the C500/CN E Prime/Odyssey7 deal on last Saturdays rebate deadline, mainly to stay in the Canon ecosystem.

I live, work and shoot in Medellin Colombia, and NYC. I finished a shoot late Wed night in Medallo and was booking a flight to NYC to pick up the the new baby. I had pre registered for CES some months ago, but decided not to go and wait for NAB. Realizing I could catch the last day of CES by routing thru LAS, and catch a couple days "rest" I hit the airport. Am I glad I did.

REVALATION-

The Juggernaut is upon us. I have read on all the various forums peoples opinions and forecasts etc of 4k...yay and nay, should I shouldn't I.

Forget the discussion-

It is here like the Borg.

The manufacturers are geared up for full frontal assault on the world and frankly it is fabulous.

Every iteration of screen type, size, style and purchasing point was there in multiples ,and, the retailers and purchasers were frothing at the mouth. They know that when people get on to this it is the easiest sell since chocolate. And I feel, the public is going to get its moneys worth.

I felt 1080p was more an audio progression (meaning it introduced the public to surround and home theatre) then a visual one. 4k is all about the eyeballs.

(Did I drink the coolaid? Yes.)

The Panasonic 4k projection room BMTFAway. Man do I want to see my work on that rig.

I caught Shane Hurlbuts presentation at Canon on the using C500 ("the best lowlight production cam in the world") to shoot " Need for Speed". Awesome. I went to the hotel and slept like a baby. Buying the C500 was the right thing to do.

Kudos to Shane, a guy who is making the point about giving back and sharing his knowledge. When I came into the industry it was a closed shop father/son entitlement operation, well still is....but better.

I am now going full in on 4k. The tools are there and in short order people will be living in a 4k viewing world.

No looking back.
 
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I think you are righ but we have been here before with 3D.....it is not going to take off until the TVs come down in price to sub 1000k prices.

Also the majority of buyers would be in the 5D3/C100/1Dx/1DC pricing bracket.

Factor in buying a really souped up PC to edit 4K and it all adds up to out of reach for mainstream for now.

I accept that the industry is going to ramp t up with K cameras by NAB though.

Good for you.....a C500 AND a 1DC....sweet!!
 
lightstrum said:
I felt 1080p was more an audio progression then a visual one. 4k is all about the eyeballs. .
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1080p being a progression from...1080i? or standard def? If the latter, I would disagree. The difference between 480i and 1080 (i or p) is and was immense, on any size screen. The difference between 1080 and 4K is noticeable, but not nearly as night and day, dependent on the size of screen and viewing distance. I still have an SD monitor in my edit setup and bringing up old footage on it is like looking through a screen door.

Camera technology continues to improve and as it has oft been said, resolution is simply one part of the equation. I'd rather shoot with a reliable, user-friendly camera that delivers gorgeous images at 1080p than a lesser system that only offers 4K as an advantage. Regardless, 4K is being pushed at all of us from acquistion through consumption, and it's honestly quite tiresome in that the HD pipeline is barely mature as it is.
 
I did the same, couldn't pass up such a great deal and I bought in at the 11th hour. My C500 arrived yesterday, and it's a beautiful thing to behold. Shockingly, I paid less for it than I did for my C300 two years ago! It was definitely an incredible short term deal that I'm glad I took advantage of. However, I'm just as excited about the 12-bit 2K & HD as I am the 4k and raw capabilities!
 
...and I'm buying a 7Q so I can rent Brian's C500! But I think I'll give it until the end of the year to jump into the 4k game, just don't have the clients to justify it just yet.

Actually anybody got a lead on 7Q inventory in LA?
 
jm.gardiner said:
just don't have the clients to justify it just yet.
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That's exactly where I sit. 95% of my clients don't even know what the hell 4k is, so it didn't make sense to jump in the 4k world just yet.

But if I do go 4k, I'm definitely going to be aiming for the C500, what a camera!
 
"we have been here before with 3D.....it is not going to take off until the TVs come down in price to sub 1000k prices."

My point is that it has taken off. There are going to be multiple price points. 3d? past, gone. That Panasonic projection room I made reference to? More 3d than 3d. Kind of like how the zeiss primes sometimes achieve that 3d quality on steroids

"Regardless, 4K is being pushed at all of us from acquistion through consumption, and it's honestly quite tiresome in that the HD pipeline is barely mature as it is."

What I meant by 1080p being more an audio thing was that it ushered in the surround sound, home theater experience, but wasn't the last word visually. As far as it being "tiresome" that the HD pipline is barely mature I say good riddance. Move on to a much better visual future.

Not doing anything until clients are willing to pay? Knowing "clients", when they do ask for 4k they will demand it right now, not "can we maybe try 4k? I'll give you a couple of weeks to gear up." This wave is already in the crack of the whip and will be slapping us silly soon.

As to the C500. Yes the beauty is that with OD7 all the different codecs are available and yes though personally very enthusiastic about 4k realize there is still a lot of other stuff to be shot.

I was rereading P. Bloom trying to figure out the need for the C500 when it first came out. At the original price point it was a disaster. With the release of the OD7 its beauty and range of use just snaps into focus. Read thru all S. Hurlbut stuff on the 1D C and C500. For an independent shooter like me it is a dream come true. Small, light, rugged, totally useable gear, that finally takes us beyond the film world. I feel we are entering an age of being able to capture exactly what we are seeing or imagining with minimal lighting, rigging and pretense.

Silver halide R.I.P.
 
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Well I am all for change....but then I am a Techie...are mainstream people going to change in large numbers?
Well that is where it comes down to......it is the numbers game.
When you talk about "taking off"....it will only take off when Ultra HD comes downin price to the same as HD.....that goes more so for the paying public than people ike us investing in the Camera and Editing Technology to provide content.

In Ireland right now...A Samsung 60inch LED TV cost 5-6 times less han an Samsung Ultra HD TV....6,000.
People in their subconcious have a limit on the price they will pay for certain things and in a worldwide recession I do not see Ultra HD being a priority to the ordinary Joe Soap until they come down in price to what HD is now.

It will happen and the big Push by the manufacturers with the introduction of all the new 4k cameras will start the ball rolling.

It s up the them however how fast they want it to happen regarding how quick they reduce the initial prices on TVs and Cameras.

The quicker the better!!!
 
EIREHotspur said:
I think you are righ but we have been here before with 3D.....it is not going to take off until the TVs come down in price to sub 1000k prices.

Also the majority of buyers would be in the 5D3/C100/1Dx/1DC pricing bracket.

Factor in buying a really souped up PC to edit 4K and it all adds up to out of reach for mainstream for now.

I accept that the industry is going to ramp t up with K cameras by NAB though.

Good for you.....a C500 AND a 1DC....sweet!!
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With the new, <$2000 4K handy cam from Sony coming out soon, sure I will get that to accompany my 1DC, C500 is a bit big for my guerrilla shooting style.

Buying a really souped up PC to edit 4K is what gave me the real problem.

Can anyone tell me which MAC pro to buy 6 core 8 Core or 12 Core, If I want to edit Mjpeg for 1DC natively on Premiere? I am on limited budget ( if I buy 8/or 12 core I cannot buy the SOny or BM4K )
 
I dig your enthusiasm, but they can release all the cameras and tvs they want, for the vast majority of people there will be no delivery format to show all this high resolution. I know, the Internet can now. But unless you have fiber or alot of patience for buffering, it'll be a while before you can stream it easily, even with h.265 making the files smaller.

It will cost around $1mil for a tv station to switch over. Bluray or physical media can't do 4k yet and I've heard of no plans to make a disc format based on 4K.

So how do you plan to convince a client to make their video in 4k when hardly any one can see it? Again, I know we are heading that way, but I think we have at least 2-3 years before its ready to be called "mainstream".
 
Apparently Netflix 4K will launch early 2014 with House of cards S2 in 4K. Though I've always suspected a 4K stream will be compressed too much otherwise it's gigabiggles of data.

Also there's a significant difference in quality between broadcast HD, streaming HD like Apple TV, and Blu-Ray. I'll take the Blu-ray any day. If there's going to be no 4K Blu-ray then that's a bummer and reduces the chances I'll open my wallet any time soon.

My wifes oldies only just got a HD TV 1 year ago. I'm with you @Paul, I think we've got 2-3 years.
 
I also realize those of you making films for distribution would totally be needing 4k. I was talking about my business which is broadcast tv and corporate video. I don't see a need to be on the bleeding edge any time soon! By the time my world is ready for 4K, there will be all kinds of options available in cameras, edit systems, displays etc. and let's not forget mountains of storage! I'm curious what will develop for distribution options.
 
cowpunk52 said:
I did the same, couldn't pass up such a great deal and I bought in at the 11th hour. My C500 arrived yesterday, and it's a beautiful thing to behold. Shockingly, I paid less for it than I did for my C300 two years ago! It was definitely an incredible short term deal that I'm glad I took advantage of. However, I'm just as excited about the 12-bit 2K & HD as I am the 4k and raw capabilities!
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Wow you must be cash rich...
 
I found the C500 fan noise to be objectionable in 4K mode and Canon RAW at 960Gb per hour to be unwieldy. Having to use a separate external recorder negates the small, lightweight footprint of the C500. However, there's no doubt the images and special price point of the C500/7Q was compelling.

I've shot 4K RAW with SonyF5/AX5 and internal XAVC with F55, but both get expensive. I'm sure NAB will provide many new 4K options, just need to get clients and editors up to speed. Should be interesting.
 
Yes, Worzel, cowpunk52 is a working, professional DP. As such, he can afford professional gear expected by his clientele. Is that a problem for you?
 
Paul Frederick said:
I dig your enthusiasm, but they can release all the cameras and tvs they want, for the vast majority of people there will be no delivery format to show all this high resolution. I know, the Internet can now. But unless you have fiber or alot of patience for buffering, it'll be a while before you can stream it easily, even with h.265 making the files smaller.

It will cost around $1mil for a tv station to switch over. Bluray or physical media can't do 4k yet and I've heard of no plans to make a disc format based on 4K.

So how do you plan to convince a client to make their video in 4k when hardly any one can see it? Again, I know we are heading that way, but I think we have at least 2-3 years before its ready to be called "mainstream".
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Actually it depend what bit rate you want your final product to be delivered. The current generation of smart phone ( note 3, Sony Ultra, etc) can have the 4G bandwidth to stream video and the cpu to decode 4K video files in h264 of 20-30 mbps. I have no problem showing my friend the 4K films I upload to Youtubes. Sony and others will be selling them on the net soon to match their TV.

Also if you film 4K now and you deliver in HD in 2-5 years time you and do a 4K re-mastering then you can sell your old film another round. This is what they are doing now with the old DVDs they film in HD or film.

From what I know, many TV companys (since the last few months) are replacing their betacam /xdcam with 4K cams when they go dead. They may be filming HD they still buy the 4K cameras.



Once someone see the 4K image on a 4K TV they do not want to turn back.
 
cowpunk52 said:
I did the same, couldn't pass up such a great deal and I bought in at the 11th hour. My C500 arrived yesterday, and it's a beautiful thing to behold. Shockingly, I paid less for it than I did for my C300 two years ago! It was definitely an incredible short term deal that I'm glad I took advantage of. However, I'm just as excited about the 12-bit 2K & HD as I am the 4k and raw capabilities!
Click to expand...

I just saw a test where the testors prefered the 2k over the 4k. They claimed that the 12 bit made the image noticably better.
 
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