CES 2019: ‘8K Is Getting Real’

joe1946

joe1946

Veteran
“8K is getting real,” said Steve Koenig, CTA’s VP of market research. “We’ve seen 8K in previous years, but now I expect every manufacturer will show 8K equipment, and there will be big announcements about plans to begin shipping 8K sets later in the year.”

Koenig’s forecast will also confirm the strength of the television receiver market, showing that 55-inch 4K UHD displays are “now the industry standard,” a dramatic jump from the 42-inch screen which had been the mainstay of the flat-panel industry for several years. Koenig also expects that 65-inch sets will be heavily promoted at CES.

Although Koenig admitted he has “no idea” about the pricing for 8K equipment, he expects the sets will be just one aspect of the renewed focus on TV devices. Advanced TV display technology, including rollable screens, micro LEDs from Samsung and Sony’s short-throw laser projection are among products Koenig expects to see at next year’s CES.
Click to expand...
https://www.twice.com/industry/tv-ces-2019-8k-getting-real-cta

46319961042_05540c6fb2_o.jpg
 
55" 4K is the standard? Don't tell the 52" 1080p Sony XBR5 (circa 2007) in the living room lol. I periodically visit the Magnolia section in BestBuy to see the latest and greatest top of the line TVs. In 2018 there's still nothing that looks compelling enough to replace the old Sony XBR5. I did find that QLED looks better than the OLEDs (other than blacks; there's a lot more to color/image than blacks/contrast). I have a much newer Samsung 3D TV in another room, and the old Sony still has better color (newer Samsung is much thinner and brighter; color/image is not as good). Perhaps full/true Quantum Dot TVs will provide the best of both worlds re: QLED (partial quantum dot) vs. OLED.

I do use 4K displays on the desktop (32" and 27" color-calibrated Dells). Where 4K (and more) is really needed is for HMD's used for VR!

Color and overall image quality is still king. What the market really needs is accurate AUTO COLOR CALIBRATION, not more pixels. Pretty much every AV enthusiast has to tweak their TV (or hire an expert) when they get home (including turning off motion smoothing). TVs should display what the content creator intended, and thus extra metadata could be included with the video frames (including whether motion smoothing is allowed (OK for sports, news, off for everything else etc.)). TVs should also include a camera/color-sensor to accurately adjust color based on ambient lighting. This would also make the carnival of random color at the TV store be a thing of the past :). A CALIBRATED COLOR STANDARD or CCS would be cool. Which brings us to calibrated color-accurate cameras: someday...

EDIT: this could actually work, would need to see side-by-side on vs. off (from: https://www.samsung.com/us/explore/qled-8k-tv/?cid=sem-mktg-pfs-tv-10318-22327 ):

Turn what you love into 8K
With machine learning and artificial intelligence, AI Upscaling² helps to transform your content into stunning 8K for improved details and sharpened definition. Enjoy clear and precise images with 8K-level picture quality.
Click to expand...

From https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-samsung-q900r-8k-qled-tv :
For starters, the upscaling engine does a brilliant job of separating source noise (such as compression artefacts and over-enthusiastic grain) from ‘proper’ picture information. It then calculates the look of the 30 million plus extra pixels required cleverly enough to leave HD images looking sharper, more detailed, more dense and more three dimensional than they ever have before. Even on the best 4K TVs.

The usual jaggedness around angled or arced edges is completely removed during the 8K upscale, too. Perhaps best of all, though, all of these remarkable (when you stop to think about what the TV is doing) upscaling achievements are delivered in real time without generating any of the sort of unwanted side effects commonly associated with heavy duty upscaling: there’s no double edging, no exaggerated MPEG noise, no ‘stepped’ edges, no sense of motion lag, no unwanted grittiness, no fizzing or shimmering over areas of really intense detail… The purity of the upscaled pictures truly is remarkable to see, and has our hopes up that Samsung consider porting the 85Q900R’s scaling engine over to its premium 4K TVs for 2019.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it works pretty well (AI upscaling with no artifacts)- when consumer-priced versions become available (currently $15K @ 85"), probably worth a look for the living room. It would be nice to see this upscaling / image-cleaning / artifact-removing tech available in NLEs running on GPUs.
 
Last edited:
Where's my 100" panel at sub-$5K so I can get rid of my 92" R.proj.?

"55" is now the standard"... My opinion, even at "just" HD rez's, 55" is way too small for most people's viewing distances in dens, living rooms, etc. I have a 55" 4K OLED in my bedroom and I wish I had gone with the 65". I have a 92" 1080 in my den and it's actually too small for the viewing distance.
 
puredrifting said:
As the Bard said, "Much Ado About Nothing".
Click to expand...

And to be quite honest, the quality of so much that is broadcast has gone severely down hill in recent years, with so much being acquired from the internet and streamed and sent via bonded cell links, it's not even HD quality and is really below the standards/quality of SD before that.
 
It's an information age...more more more as fast as possible before anyone else.

Coincidentally - pertaining to the OP - 8K has more information.
 
8k as a delivery format is a joke. A bad joke. On consumers. What next -- 16k? In order to see the extra resolution of 8k, one has to be so close to the screen that the eye can't take in the whole picture. So... what, besides transferring money from the customer's wallet into the manufacturer's wallet, is the point?

8K is the new 3D. And we all know about how well that worked out, don't we?

If it makes anyone feel any better, I feel the same way about 4k as a delivery format. But I'm willing to live with this, because I get stuff that actually benefits the picture, like HDR.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Meh

Wake me up when 4k becomes the standard. Then we can talk about 8k.
Click to expand...

I agree with that sentiment.

The only thing that I'd point out though is that the push for 8K will hopefully speed up the 4K adoption... but I'm still more interested in HDR.
 
That display looks impressive.
As far as 8K....I wonder how the general consumer will respond? Will they think it's twice as good (4 vs 8)? Will they convince themselves it looks better? It must, because it's newer and better, right?
Or will people actually decide 4k UHD is enough and not see enough difference?

I like 4K acquisition for several reasons, mainly re-framing. But 4K delivery? no.
8K? I don't even want to think about the hardware and software upgrades that will take...
 
Bruce Watson said:
If it makes anyone feel any better, I feel the same way about 4k as a delivery format. But I'm willing to live with this, because I get stuff that actually benefits the picture, like HDR.
Click to expand...

When I saw the first NHK 8K presentation at NAB Futures, it was the same year that I also saw Sony's new professional HDR display.

The Sony display was in a dark room in Sony's palace, connected to a Baselight along with a professional SDR monitor. Both had the same footage showing concurrently.

NHK's presentation was beautiful. Sony's was stunning.

And this year Sony was showing its Crystal LED display... and the first thing people commented on was its gorgeous, vibrant color.

I doubt that anyone noticed the resolution until Peter Crithary told us that it was 8K. :)
 
Bruce Watson said:
8k as a delivery format is a joke. A bad joke. On consumers. What next -- 16k? In order to see the extra resolution of 8k, one has to be so close to the screen that the eye can't take in the whole picture. So... what, besides transferring money from the customer's wallet into the manufacturer's wallet, is the point?

8K is the new 3D. And we all know about how well that worked out, don't we?

If it makes anyone feel any better, I feel the same way about 4k as a delivery format. But I'm willing to live with this, because I get stuff that actually benefits the picture, like HDR.
Click to expand...

Ding, ding, ding! Winner!
 
Bruce Watson said:
8k as a delivery format is a joke. A bad joke. On consumers. What next -- 16k? In order to see the extra resolution of 8k, one has to be so close to the screen that the eye can't take in the whole picture. So... what, besides transferring money from the customer's wallet into the manufacturer's wallet, is the point?

8K is the new 3D. And we all know about how well that worked out, don't we?

If it makes anyone feel any better, I feel the same way about 4k as a delivery format. But I'm willing to live with this, because I get stuff that actually benefits the picture, like HDR.
Click to expand...

8K is NOT the new 3D.

8K is a destination of human vision set a long time ago, by joint research effort from the BBC and NHK.

I'd go as far as saying there won't be anymore Ks after 8K in content acquisition, it's a beginning and the end.
 
firehawk said:
That display looks impressive.
As far as 8K....I wonder how the general consumer will respond? Will they think it's twice as good (4 vs 8)? Will they convince themselves it looks better? It must, because it's newer and better, right?
Or will people actually decide 4k UHD is enough and not see enough difference?

I like 4K acquisition for several reasons, mainly re-framing. But 4K delivery? no.
8K? I don't even want to think about the hardware and software upgrades that will take...
Click to expand...

Most consumers will have 8K displays as soon as the pricing is reasonable (the few hundred bucks everyone is paying now for a decent 4K one).

As far as acquisition, some RED guys & gals have been shooting 8K for two years or so.

IMO, I think we'll see one or two prosumer/professional 8K cameras in 2019 - most likely from Blackmagic or Sony - with the rest of them coming in 2020 from everyone else.
 
marvinhello said:
8K is NOT the new 3D.

8K is a destination of human vision set a long time ago, by joint research effort from the BBC and NHK.

I'd go as far as saying there won't be anymore Ks after 8K in content acquisition, it's a beginning and the end.
Click to expand...

Trying to predict which new technology will fail or succeed in our business is difficult. Kind of like VR. Is VR the new 3D (a flop?) For mainstream content, yes, although I see some success with it for certain audiences with certain subject matter. I recall a year or two ago though where everyone in our business was all abuzz that VR was the "next thing". Many had to rush out and buy VR cameras, an Occulus Rift and hack together stitching software. How many people do you know actually making money with VR? 3D? 8K?

As much as the BBC, NHK or any other network would like to convince us otherwise, 8K is primarily driven by the need of manufacturers to sell us and consumers a new "thing" that we all must have.
If you study distance viewing charts, you quickly see that 8K has no practical need or relevance to the average consumer. Really the same with 4K.
Remember, these are the same consumers that just five year ago mostly couldnt see or tell the difference between SD and 1080. Most content worldwide is consumed on 4" phone screens by far where even 1080 is overkill.
Hopefully 8K is the end of the resolution wars. We have to get off of this endless cycle of pointless consumerism in buying new tech that is pointless.
 
marvinhello said:
8K is NOT the new 3D.

8K is a destination of human vision set a long time ago, by joint research effort from the BBC and NHK.

I'd go as far as saying there won't be anymore Ks after 8K in content acquisition, it's a beginning and the end.
Click to expand...

It's terrific. Now the public can actually see the makeup/powder on an actor's face from 4" away as they do a cameo. Bravo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top