Car Underwater

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Not sure where to post this, figured cinematography would be most appropriate.

I have a friend who would like to shoot car underwater.

The shot needs to be a submerged (fully, not partial) car, a girl inside gets pulled out to safety. the camera will be underwater.

Here's the clincher: it needs to be done on a student budget. I'm open to ideas on where to do this - a pool, a loading doc, a boat ramp, etc. (safety and cost are a concern)

We can get a disposable car, that's not an issue. The logistics of how and were to shoot it are what I'm trying to figure out.

Ideas?
 
film? music video?

exact budget?

you want it to look like the car is submerged in a pool?, a river?, in a sea?

(not sure if this is the same everywhere) - there are some resorts that have a small round lake type thing that is not in open sea but sometimes deep enough for shooting.

it's something really close to the beach, to protect the beach from sudden waves, it's usually a safer place for kids/teens to swim as opposed to the sea if they don't want to use a kids pool. in the off season you could find a deal with a resort, or if they have a big pool and you want to use that.

if you can use a scuba instructor or someone with experience as the girl inside, it might make things a bit easier, maybe another diver at the same place you rent an oxygen tank, if possible wires for the girl.
 
The main two issues you're up against are safety and environmental.

On the environment, it's doable but will likely take a bit of work to do it legit. Very few people will be willing to let someone throw a dirty, oily, greasy old car into their pristine swimming pool - similarly good luck getting permission to dump one in public waters. You would have to scrub it clean like they do to old ships before sinking them to make artificial reefs, or make a clean fake version to use instead. It's definitely doable, but will take some time and elbow grease.

Safety is the bigger concern. I would not attempt to do anything like this without experienced stunt crews leading the shot. Cars are meant to drive on land through the air. When you put a car underwater, things don't necessarily work quite right or the way you expect them to. You need people who know what to expect and are able to deal with things when they don't go as expected. As a bonus, they would probably have the best knowledge of places where you could do a shot like this.
 
from the description, the car would be already submerged.

no mention of the car jumping or even let go into the water, so it's much less of a stunt. but, any risk can be accounted as a stunt.
 
Yup, safety is the biggy - get this wrong and someone could die. :(

I'd say you need someone with scuba gear hiding out of shot inside the car, plus a couple of other scuba people waiting ready to swim over if necessary. If you have no money for professionals, is there a local scuba club who could get involved?

Set up the car so that the doors facing away from the camera cannot click closed, so the people in the car know they can simply push them open when necessary without having to worry about jammed door handles etc if anything goes wrong and they have to get out (or be pulled out) in a hurry.

And getting an actress with underwater swimming and breath-holding experience would be a really good idea.

Re location, a swimming pool is probably the easiest to shoot in as it's a controllable environment, but is probably going to look rather obviously like a swimming pool - a problem unless the script can be tailored so that the car has a good reason to be in a swimming pool.
 
is it possible to have scuba tank sitting there in the car with the actor(s) but just out of shot so that just in case they are able to put the mouthpiece on and breath in air? if not i would probably leave the underwater part to stunt scuba expert look alikes and only use shots of the real actress as she emerges from the top of the water so that you can tell it's her. after all underwater and/or inside the car when she's squirming around violently and panicking and such you probably wouldn't be able to clearly see her face anyway especially if you creatively frame it so it can be a stunt scuba-diver probably without too much problem
 
Look,

I am going to say this and please take me seriously. Do NOT do this. I say that as a filmmaker, and someone trained in diving in tight overhead environments. Yes, this can be done, but to do it properly (aka safely) it would cost you WAY more than you'd want to spend. Just getting a crane to place the car in the water would cost a ton. Environmental scrubbing of a car to get it clean to dump into water would cost a fortune. Liability for your actor would be very expensive, the cost to have EMS on site would cost a bunch, and hiring a qualified safety diver would cost a bunch.

Again, do NOT do this. Please.
 
j said:
We can get a disposable car, that's not an issue. The logistics of how and were to shoot it are what I'm trying to figure out.

Ideas?
Click to expand...

Can you get disposable people?

This sort of thing could not be 'done' on a 'student budget'.

A few weeks ago, there was a story posted about a student film disaster, where the students went to a Georgia location, hired a 'local' lighting guy from 'craigslist', aka student budget 'lighting guy'...

result: crane carrying the lights hit a high tension power line, death resulted...

This setup spells that kind of disaster.

If you did need to get 'talent' in the water, I'd seriously think about 'cgi', renting a Phantom (or heck, a Sony Handycam that has a 200 fps for about 10 seconds 'feature'...), get a fan to waft clothing, greenscreen, and getting some highspeed footage, and CGI'ing in the 'car' and 'water' effects. Being blown by a fan, in slo-mo, does look sufficiently like 'water' to work for a brief 2-3 second shot on the screen.
 
I have the cheapest and safest idea for you...

Rewrite the scene.

Seriously, listen to the others... Don't do this. It's dangerous as is, but trying to do it with a "student budget" is a no go.
 
Miniatures. Green Screen close ups. After Effect composite. There are tons of ways to do the shot and not actually put a car in the water. I'd go with one of them.

Film making is manipulating time and space.
 
That death on the indie film was from a NYU student project. I read about it and it was sad how that happened. It was inexperience meets fatigue.

I agree with other. Just because you want it done on a student budget, doesn't mean it can be done. My advice. Shoot it in a fish tank, use toy cars and have some fun with the scene. OK, only slightly joking. But if I was asked to help I would stay far away from this project. Learn from others. ****, learn from Waterworld. Any time you touch water it gets EXPENSIVE! Just look how much underwater housing cost. Putting to the side neccasary safety exquipment, I don't think you can even afford AV equipment. Sounds like a 5k to 10k day. So start saving!
 
Look at all the example footage you can find.

Shoot the car outdoors, maybe at night or dusk, or in a big warehouse with replicated "underwater ripply light". Use a big greenscreen to see through windows, etc.

Shoot the talent in a swimming pool - they won't be "enclosed" which lessens safety issues. Have a lifeguard on hand. The white walls of a pool could work as a luma key, and you'll get perfect light effects and hair/fabric motion. Do it in daylight or an indoor pool, and darken/green it up in post to hide any keying trouble.

Add swaying seaweed and bubbles. Use a particle system for silt, dirt, whatever's floating in the water. Put a lot of swirling stuff in the scene and it makes compositing even easier. "Murk" the water up in layers for even more depth and even easier keying.

Storyboard the whole thing in a way that makes for dynamic shots that can also be keyed effectively. You don't need a lot to happen to "sell" the idea of someone being pulled from a car.

If you have a crap car, jack up one end, seal all the seams and openings, fill it with water to the seats (on dry land of course) and get your "sinking" scene with a person in the car. 3 seconds of jerky handheld could sell the hell out of it.

Before you do that, jack up the front with racing-style shop jacks, support the rear at the same height with drive-on work ramps. Mount a cam in back, get your talent in the driver's seat, and release the front jacks. The car will drop quickly to the front, but it will still be smooth as the hydraulics discharge in the jacks - but you'll get a realistic sense of "front impact" and the car will shift, rock and twist realistically. Speed that shot up and key in the "water impact" on the windshield - 60 frames is all you need.

Hey, I'm sure you could roll a car down a boat ramp and hope it wouldn't get stuck, and tow it back out with a winch or something. But all the warnings above should quash that idea pretty quick. Don't end your career with a tragic student film accident.
 
there's NO WAY you can do this on a student budget without someone getting seriously hurt.
 
Thanks Michael, some good advice and ideas on how to do it safely within budget.
 
In my opinion, I would avoid shooting this for real at all costs and only try if you have the budget for a movie studio tank, safety divers, paramedics, a crane to prevent the car from sinking. Even then, there is still a great deal of risk.

Still, do not give up. there are other ways.

I would avoid trying to show the woman being pulled out of the car and would instead start the shot after she has been pulled out and is going up to the surface. I would shoot the scene using a real body of water like a lake and have a miniature car in the water. I know, people think miniature=cheesy but if you hire a model maker or purchase a very realistic and accurate car model (some photorealistic ones can be had for $500-$1000) than you can use forced perspective techniques underwater to sell the illusion that the car is much larger than it really is. For example, you could have your camera mounted on the floor of the lake (pretty shallow like 13-15ft down and have your miniature mounted close to the camera lens and in the foreground of the shot with the camera pointed up to the surface. Have the actors swim away from the camera up to the surface. They are only a few feet under the surface. The miniature will appear to be full scale and only a few feet under the water when in reality it is much deeper.

Make sure you fill all the compartments of the model with water so no bubbles come out during the take which will give it away that is is a miniature.

You will also need ultra deep dof. Panavision has something called a Frazier lens which has almost unlimited dof and has been used in numerous movies to make miniatures look full size. Since the miniature is under the water, you do not need to worry about faking the water ripples and reflections in post. Here is a video of the Frazier Lens and how it can make miniatures look full scale: http://media.panavision.com/ReferenceLibrary/html/Frazier.html

Since this is a forced perspective shot, the actors cannot interact with the model but need to be a ways away from it to sell the illusion. The other problem is getting a camera and something like a Frazier lens (which is huge) under the water but if the guy was considering submerging a whole car, than this is child's play by comparison.
 
As the advice to not do it at all will most likely be ignored, let me agree with the CGI / faking it suggestion.

Even better, rethink it so that you don't need to show the girl trapped at all, just the guy going in to save her. Camera can follow him down into the dark water somewhat. Cut to a shot of the lake, for a very long time to build suspense. Then they pop up with the girl in tow, unconscious. He swims her to the shore. It's love.

That's the "student" version I would try. Don't risk people's lives. Don't put a car in fresh water without removing the engine and exhaust system, and transmission, etc. (If it's the Gulf of Mexico, do whatever you want. It's encouraged. They may even send you a bailout to help promote your film.)
 
shorty15 said:
In my opinion, I would avoid shooting this for real at all costs and only try if you have the budget for a movie studio tank, safety divers, paramedics, a crane to prevent the car from sinking. Even then, there is still a great deal of risk.

Still, do not give up. there are other ways.
Click to expand...

I was watching the "Live Free, or Die Hard"(2007) special features. It is pretty good. In one segment they showed some of the practical vs. FX work that was done. One of the more 'action' sequences took place in a tunnel, where the Bruce Willis character is trying to escape The Bad Guys, and save Justin Long, a witness/suspect in the computer hacking theme of the movie.

One shot was a massive car pile up in the tunnel, where a care flips, spins and crashes nearly on top of Bruce and Justin. Well, of course they are not going to put their principles in harms way, nor are they going to put any one else there either. But the crashing spinning car, is a 'real' car, on wires, with various 'assists' to get the spinning motino and the 'leap' across a large distance.

The shot of Bruce and Justin are composited in, border regions 'unified' and the effect is that the two heroes narrowly escape death...

Shortly after that shot, there's another spectacular where a car is 'launched' at a helicopter at the entrance to the tunnel. The gag there was a helicopter carcass was held up by a crane, and the car propelled up a ram with wires and compressed gas, etc... but was then composited with one of the Bad Guys falling out of the smashed helicopter... blades for the helicopter were composited in
from CGI models, to avoid having to have a 'working' helicopter, just one suspended by wires.
 
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