Other: Capturing and editing presentation with no grading

A

Afterglow

Active member
If you had to shoot a presentation from a lectern to a room full of people with the FX6 and A7SIII and then hand off footage to 'marketing' person for the editing BUT no color grading, what would be everyone's choice of non-slog camera settings? Even S cinetone requires a bit of grading, right? Other options?

Thanks!
 
With no discussion of the contrast ratios in the lighting of the set can this be a question?

YOU are ony gonna be able to do this if THEY light it properly.
 
Afterglow said:
If you had to shoot a presentation from a lectern to a room full of people with the FX6 and A7SIII and then hand off footage to 'marketing' person for the editing BUT no color grading, what would be everyone's choice of non-slog camera settings? Even S cinetone requires a bit of grading, right? Other options?

Thanks!
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Unfortunately the FX6 does not have very many paint menus so you pretty much have to accept the look of S-Cinetone if you want a WYSIWYG look. Fortunately, S-Cinetone works best in the kind of scenario you have described, so your client will probably be happy with it. Any editor worth his salt should be able to touch it up a bit with the basic color correction tools in his/her NLE.
 
In that scenario, you probably have to shoot straight Rec.709. The old Sony mirrorless cameras did best with setting one of the picture profiles to ITU709 gamma, and color mode to Still.
 
In New York, for different events/shows [before 2020], we used to burn-in LUTs over LOG using Atomos recorders - but in hindsight, I think no one would notice a difference if some sort of Rec.709 was tweaked and used. We did, but others don't see/care.
 
NorBro said:
In New York, for different events/shows [before 2020], we used to burn-in LUTs over LOG using Atomos recorders - but in hindsight, I think no one would notice a difference if some sort of Rec.709 was tweaked and used. We did, but others don't see/care.
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That’s a good thought, shooting in slog w burnt in Phantom lut on the FX 6. Can a LUT be burnt in on A7siii (ignorance here is because it’s mainly used for stills)?
 
I would say the a7SIII is mainly used for video, but any camera that sends a picture out via HDMI or SDI can have a LUT burned in. It doesn't even have to be LOG, but it always should be as you'd almost never burn anything over Rec.709 unless it was your own LUT that you created that added perhaps a bit of contrast and saturation (maybe if you wanted to save time in post).

But internally, I'm not sure. A lot of cameras allow you to load LUTs but not many like Blackmagic/etc. allow you to record them into the picture without using any additional hardware.
 
NorBro said:
Ibut any camera that sends a picture out via HDMI or SDI can have a LUT burned in.
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Any camera? Are you sure about that?
Please tell me how to do that on my Z280 and Z750 because I have been unable to find that menu option. Do tell.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Any camera? Are you sure about that?
Please tell me how to do that on my Z280 and Z750 because I have been unable to find that menu option. Do tell.
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You're either lonely or bored because I know you're not ignorant?

What could you possibly not understand about that statement?

Yes, any camera that sends out a picture via HDMI or SDI. The hardware like an Atomos, Blackmagic, Video Devices or Convergent Design burning a LUT into the image on its own is separate from the camera, so it just needs to see something.
 
NorBro said:
Yes, any camera that sends out a picture via HDMI or SDI. The hardware like an Atomos, Blackmagic, Video Devices or Convergent Design burning a LUT into the image on its own is separate from the camera, so it just needs to see something.
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I guessed that is what you were driving at. Done that a lot to a Ninja V for quick hand off for EDL crunching but recorded SLOG internally. Vary rarely use LUTs as they are someone else's preset basically. Unless they are the camera manufacturers technically correct standard 709 conversion LUTs designed for for a particular camera such as ARRI's 709 LUTs for the Alexa. Much prefer to use Color Space Transforms to whatever destination color space you want and do any L, G, G adjustments prior to the transform node and if it's required apply any "artistic" look after the transform. I really do wish other manufacturers would approach the whole thing the way ARRI do with their Camera Image Core which utilizes a look file (ARRI Look File 2) to transform the LOG C to 709 or 2020.

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
I guessed that is what you were driving at. Done that a lot to a Ninja V for quick hand off for EDL crunching but recorded SLOG internally. Vary rarely use LUTs as they are someone else's preset basically. Unless they are the camera manufacturers technically correct standard 709 conversion LUTs designed for for a particular camera such as ARRI's 709 LUTs for the Alexa. Much prefer to use Color Space Transforms to whatever destination color space you want and do any L, G, G adjustments prior to the transform node and if it's required apply any "artistic" look after the transform. I really do wish other manufacturers would approach the whole thing the way ARRI do with their Camera Image Core which utilizes a look file (ARRI Look File 2) to transform the LOG C to 709 or 2020.

Chris Young
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You'd probably like RED cameras and their workflow.

Best in the business, IMO - although the ARRIs look nicer, at least when comparing the absolute 1% best-of-the-best apples to apples.
 
S-Cinetone. Yes, it benefits from grading in post but it also offers the best image SOOC from a Sony camera—in particular when shooting people.

This is an ungraded still (from the proxies, no less) of a recent shoot with the FX6 set to S-Cinetone. Very basic lighting since we had to work quickly. Grading would definitely improve things but in this case the situation was similar to yours: shoot footage that will be handed over and won't be graded. I think it looks totally fine, but it's also a scene where S-Cinetone really shines: skin tones, warm colors, softer lighting, some deep blacks already in the scene, and contrasty but not overly so.

s-cinetone.jpg
 
That is pretty much what I said a few days ago . .

Doug Jensen said:
Unfortunately the FX6 does not have very many paint menus so you pretty much have to accept the look of S-Cinetone if you want a WYSIWYG look. Fortunately, S-Cinetone works best in the kind of scenario you have described, so your client will probably be happy with it. Any editor worth his salt should be able to touch it up a bit with the basic color correction tools in his/her NLE.
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But I disagree that S-Cinteone offers the best SOOC look from a Sony camera. No way. On cameras that have a full set of paint menus it is easy to beat the look of S-Cinteone. S-Cinetone is perhaps the best look right out of the box of any Sony camera, but it is certainly not the best look possilbe after a few paint menus have been tweaked.

Also, in my opinion, and you will probably take offense at this, so I apologize in advance, the frame you have posted does nothing to bolster your assertion that S-Cinetone looks good. I think this particular shot is a rather dull, bland, muddy, and not sharp enough. I know from experience on my own shoots and from seeing some impressive work by others that S-Cinetone can look a lot better than this. Sorry.
 
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I probably should have qualified "SOOC" by adding "of modern Sony cameras without in-camera tweaking." For many of us who work almost exclusively on the premise of having our shots color graded in-camera paint menus are a lost art form, for better or worse.

No offense taken on the shot. As mentioned, I think this looks "totally fine" given the limitations and conditions—it's certainly not going to win any awards, and I've also seen much better use of S-Cinetone. But it looks far better than any SOOC profile from my Fs5. I would quibble with the sharpness comment, only because this is a screenshot of the proxy. The lens used was the new(ish) Sigma 35, which I find plenty sharp.

Right now my biggest issue with the shot is the moire in the apron. The FX6 seems to be far worse than the Fs5 or FS7 in this regard.
 
drboffa said:
I probably should have qualified "SOOC" by adding "of modern Sony cameras without in-camera tweaking..
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I htink we need a new term, if it doesn't exist already: SOOTB "Straight Out Of The Box". No tweaking, just turn it on and shoot. In fact, that is essentially the whole idea of S-Cinteone. But as I'm sure Chris and Lenny will agree, no Sony camera looks it's best without some onboard adjustments to suit the user's taste. So SOOC and SOOTB aren't necessariily the same thing.
 
I'm with you on that Doug though I have found s-Cinetone to be pretty good. May be better for interiors with people than for other kind of shots. Maybe both terms (SOOTC SOOTB) are helpful though if you set up your camera ahead of time what's the difference. Sony already gives you options . How about "IOOTB" "Iris out of the Box" for those who don't even want to adjust their iris? Truth is everything you shoot always benefits from some grading because then its in context with other shots. A bunch of totally perfect shots on their own may not cut smoothly together.
 
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