Can't change ISO while recording

Ben_B

Ben_B

Veteran
Why? Is there a reason for this? I'd like to be able to do it. I've found myself in lots of situations out in the real world (IE not on a set) where I've needed to go from say, inside to outside, and inside I was @ ISO 400 or so, and outside that makes it so I have to stop down to like f22.....I can rack iris but not ISO? What gives! Is there a way to do this that I have simply not figured out yet?
 
Not to mention no focus assist or ability to change white balance while recording.....I understand things like bitrate, HDMI out, etc, which might have a hardware reason for being absent...but this is clearly pure software, and is a glaring omission that I have already found annoying. Mainly lack of focus assist....still LOVE the camera though. I suppose it can only get better from here.
 
The camera is fairly frustrating to use at times because of it. It suffers from a problem of not having enough buttons, not enough control and a sub-par menu layout. What works in a compact with fewer options won't work in a camera with many customisable functions.
 
Sounds like we're starting to bump up into some of the shortcomings of the camera not being a "real camcorder." Hardly makes me disappointed in the GH1, but it does make me wonder what we'll have a year from now...
 
what camera on planet earth is capable of changing ISO's when recording?

for exposure and WB, isn't their an auto exposure and an auto white balance?
 
Funnily enough you can't change ISO on 35mm movie cameras while shooiting either. Or change colour temperature. If you are need of doing this kind of exposure changes often a variable ND filter is really the best option as it's truly stepless. Friend of mine got the Fader ND and is happy with it for these exact situations. As for white balance, I do it in post, setting the cam midway or balance for the longest part of the take - most NLEs do hue shifts and colour balance filters in real time.

The problem with adding features like you suggest isn't only a software problem, it's a 'human engineering' cost, ie; teaching non-pro consumers to getting them to work and not be confused by them. For example every feature you add have to be documented and even if they do describe in detail in the manual it increases the amount of help calls/email to the support desk by people who never read the manual - all this adds to the cost of 'making' the product. Can be quite substantial. And GH1 is still a high-end consumer device that the bunch of us hanging in this forum wrestles into pro usage.

As for using focas assist zoom in mid-take I'm pretty sure that would overtax the CPUs - as we've seen camera is already rather busy scaling down the sensor output to the 1080/720 stream. Which is a task standard camcorders don't need to do.

I do hope Panasonic make a 'pro' version of GH1 with all this kind of bells and whistles but for the price it is a fantastic bargain. Seen this one with a quarter inch sensor that their broadcast division just started to sell for almost twice the price?

http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2009/07/23/the-new-ag-hmc41e-mini-camcorder-from-panasonic/
 
That's pretty ridiculous.

On another note, I was playing with my HVX200 yesterday and found out that I can't take high resolution still pictures with auto bracketing. Seriously, does Panasonic just not get what still photographers need out of a video camera?

For a less sarcastic and rude note (which I do apologize for): is this something you can regularly do with other cameras? Does the 5D do this? I don't think I've ever seen it, but I've never looked for it, either. I'm kind of behind the times by a couple of years. Seems like a weird idea to me, but on further thought I guess it makes sense.
 
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I've already suggested (a few times - at my age I'm prone to repeating myself) that in full manual mode, there would be nothing wrong with having auto ISO provided for those that want it.
 
yslee said:
Hey, it can be frustrating to use even as a still camera.
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Not true. Great control layout in my opinion.

Why would you want to change ISO manually during recording anyway? It would create an awful brightness stepping affect in manual mode with manual shutter, etc. Auto ISO changes are handled smoothly, so just stick it in auto ISO if you need to change ISO while recording.
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
The problem with adding features like you suggest isn't only a software problem, it's a 'human engineering' cost, ie; teaching non-pro consumers to getting them to work and not be confused by them. For example every feature you add have to be documented and even if they do describe in detail in the manual it increases the amount of help calls/email to the support desk by people who never read the manual - all this adds to the cost of 'making' the product. Can be quite substantial. And GH1 is still a high-end consumer device that the bunch of us hanging in this forum wrestles into pro usage.
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Absolutely perfect summary. As a former software engineer, I can attest that each new feature, each additional item, compounds disproportionately. It's like I say when doing a multi-camera test, people are never satisfied with testing just one camera, they always want more -- "can you add an XHA1 into your test?" and "Oooh, this test would be perfect if you added the JVC HM100" and on and on. What has to be considered is that each additional object to be tested complicates the process of getting accurate results by, roughly, the square of the number of items tested -- so, testing one camera is easy. Testing two side by side, and getting perfectly accurate results, is 4x harder. Testing 3 cameras is roughly 9x harder, testing four (and not forgetting anything, and keeping things perfectly balanced and equal, and taking all things into account) is 16x harder than just testing one.

So the $1500 price point is absolutely going to dictate what features get added, how complex those features are, how much testing and bug-fixing and firmware updates have to be performed, how much tech support has to be budgeted in, etc.

I do hope Panasonic make a 'pro' version of GH1 with all this kind of bells and whistles but for the price it is a fantastic bargain. Seen this one with a quarter inch sensor that their broadcast division just started to sell for almost twice the price?
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Well, to be fair, it's three 1/4" sensors, and it's 33% more expensive, not twice the price. But yes, it also does many things the GH1 doesn't do, such as 24 megabits PH recording, 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 720/24p, optional XLR inputs, power zoom, internal ND filters, a waveform monitor, live uncompressed HDMI monitoring, zebras, peaking, and on and on and on... It's much more complex, but it's also compatible in most all ways with their other lineup, so the additional features can be leveraged off of the existing software development for the other cameras, and supported by the existing infrastructure of Panasonic Broadcast.
 
Barry_Green said:
(re. AG-HMC41E)
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It does look quite tasty, although I'm confused about the benefits of 3 1/4" sensors vs 1 large one...seems like no DOF. Then again not everyone who wants a camcorder is aiming for the arty stuff - this would be a far better camera for documentary use and Panasonic are sure pricing it to sell.
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
Funnily enough you can't change ISO on 35mm movie cameras while shooiting either. Or change colour temperature. If you are need of doing this kind of exposure changes often a variable ND filter is really t
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Touché!

I didn't consider that. All I considered is the pin-head sized "Gain" and "WB" switches that live on the front of the DVX/HVX, allowing you to change WB and Sensitivity on the fly. (Is ISO not the same as sensor gain?)
 
Eddy Robinson said:
although I'm confused about the benefits of 3 1/4" sensors vs 1 large one...seems like no DOF.
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That is correct -- no shallow DOF. You get better color accuracy with three chips, which is why every professional broadcast camcorder from every one of the major manufacturers uses 3 chips and a prism.

For those who want shallow DOF, a single large sensor provides that better than three smaller sensors.
 
I meant no disregard to HMC40 - it looks like a very nice small pro camcorder. It was just a comparison on what you get for the money. And in US you seem get a better deal on it than here in Sweden where it's actually a bit more than twice as much...

GH1 Swedish price (small number below red price is without VAT):
http://www.scandinavianphoto.se/product/item.aspx?iid=9149340

HMC-41E Swedish price:
http://www.scandinavianphoto.se/product/item.aspx?iid=9120761

And that's without the microphone and the XLR-adapter which are extra here.
 
commanderspike said:
Not true. Great control layout in my opinion.

Why would you want to change ISO manually during recording anyway? It would create an awful brightness stepping affect in manual mode with manual shutter, etc. Auto ISO changes are handled smoothly, so just stick it in auto ISO if you need to change ISO while recording.
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Coming from a Nikon D300, it *is* frustrating to use.

Changing ISO on the fly with the GH1: Tap the ISO button, twirl the command dial, then try click on the dial, or tap the ISO button, use the left right buttons to move, then hit ok button.

Changing ISO on the fly with the D300: Hold down the ISO button, twirl command dial, and release.

Actually, any sort of change involving the command dial is not as fast because of the need to click on it to confirm the option. The "hold a button and twirl command dial" convention exists because it is faster. Just hold, change, and release.

Changing AF points on the GH1 (because sometimes you just have to use a single AF point): Hit left, hit down, use dpad, hit ok.

Changing AF points on the D300: Use the dpad. Done!

If you need to change something not so common on the GH1 (like gridlines): Delve through the menus to find the darn option. If it's on page 3 on 5 there's no shortcut; you need to scroll through 2 pages of options either way. Or hope you've used it recently enough to have it appear on the Custom menu.

If you need to change something not so common on the d300: Save the option to My Menu, which is a fully custom quick menu, and put it near the top (or bottom, so you just scroll from behind).

Heck, the LX series has a nice switch to switch between the various aspect ratios. As the GH1 has a true variable aspect ratio sensor, I'd very much like the ability to switch quickly on the fly instead of diving through menus.

Absolute waste of space: A full dial for AF modes. That could've been something more. Like ISO. Move the AF modes to a switch like most cameras.
 
Let's not forget, you can do the equivelant of changing ISO (although really not the same thing technically) on an HVX, etc, by flipping the gain switch while you are recording. So yes you can do it on the fly with other cameras, they just happen to be dedicated video cameras. I am pretty sure they also focus assist while recording :)
 
I agree with some of those points. There is a way...I forget how to access it, maybe you click in on the wheel? That lets you spin around right to the setting you want (So long as it has an icon, and most the settings do), and then click to adjust. The only problem there is -- rather unintuitively -- once you click to bring up the menu, you have to use the arrow keys to select the option you want. Spin, click, spin to select setting, and then click again would be a better design...but what do you do?

Machine-Human user Interfaces are something I find very fascinating. Some day when I'm the one designing them, these issues will be fixed!
 
The main beef I have is with the click-to-confirm wheel. Basically I find anything to do with confirming a decision slows down the process. I suppose it is meant to make it easier for beginners, but why target them with such an expensive kit?
 
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