canopus hq as good as cineform neo scene transcode?

A

ade4all

Veteran
Hi, am thinking of getting the hmc151 which is shipping with edius neo2 at the moment- i would like to use premiere cs3 to edit but with my computer (core 2 duo 2.53ghz) reckon transcoding the avchd footage will be the easieast way
how does the canopus hq avi transcoder within neo2 compare with cineforms neo scene? i've read great things about cineforms codec & its ease of use in premiere - will the canopus hq give me similar results & will it edit well in premiere with my computer?
any help would be great, thanks
 
I've used ProCoder 3 to transcode HMC footage to Canopus HQ -- meaning I know absolutely nothing about "neo2."

In ProCoder 3 I was able to alter the output dimensions of the transcoded footage to true 1920 by 1080 -- as opposed to the default 1440 Canopus HQ. The result was some of the best HMC 1080/24p footage with which I've ever worked. I seem to remember encountering limitations with ProCoder 3 -- especially with the 60p frame rate -- meaning I don't think I was able to transcode 60p to CanopusHQ as it offered no 60fps option in that mode. It's possible I was working with an older version -- and perhaps things are different with newer versions.

In my limited experience with ProCoder 3 -- creating 1920 by 1080 CanopusHQ footage -- it was excellent and superior to my experiences with Cineform. At the time Cineform hadn't been updated to work with Premiere Pro CS4 -- and with those headaches I stopped using Cineform for anything.

So -- my experience with CanopusHQ was positive -- and I would assume that since this "neo2" thing is shipping with the HMC -- it's probably ideal for HMC footage. If I were you I'd test "neo2" extensively before messing with anything from Cineform.
 
you can demo both Neo2 and Cineform Neo Scene, then download some HMC clips, then compare the two outputs.
 
Consider upgrading to Premiere CS4. If you like Premiere CS3 and would like to continue to use Premiere, the CS4 revision added AVCHD support, and the free 4.1 update made huge improvements in the workflow. If you've got an nVidia graphics card you may find that your computer is plenty adequate to the task of editing AVCHD from the HMC150, in realtime, without needing to convert to any other file format.
 
thanks everyone for your responses. have just tried the demo of both, to be honest i can't really see much difference on my 17" laptop screen between the 2 other than cineform seems to be a bit more contrasty for want of a better word. both play nicely in cs3 it seems although i couldn't find a suitable project preset to put them in. don't have a hd monitor to really pixel peep on.
unfortunately i have an ati hd3650 graphics card, does the nvidia handle avchd better, i had read the 4.1 update was kinder to the hardware but that many people were still struggling to get it to work smoothly if they added any effects or colour correction, was concerned that this would slow my work down overall more so than transcoding to begin with
i do have my eye on cs4 eventually (& a faster pc with i7) but funds are totally stretched with the purchase of the hmc151 - basically i wanted to know about canopus because it comes with the camera if i use all my resources to buy new - i had been looking to get a used 1 for a bit less & spending the savings on cineform & possibly the cs4 upgrade but no one seems to be wanting to part with theirs here in pal land - says a lot for the camera but that doesn't help me much in this instance.
anyway the canopus seems to be alright for now, would love to see if cs4.1 would also do the trick & be my next purchase when funds allow, but i don't think the trial version comes with the 4.1 upgrade for me to test
thanks again for all your advice, if anyone else has any strong reason for me to hold out for a 2nd hand camera & use cineform instead of canopus then please let me know asap, would love to buy soon
 
hmm actually not sure canopus hq does play nice with cs3, can't find a decent project preset, using desktop canopus plays in a slightly stuttery way on the timeline whilst cineform is smooth - also when i try & export there is no canopus export file type to choose but there is cineform avi export. this makes me think canopus is not supported in cs3 at all & having searched in the edius forums came across this from 1 of the edius gurus -
You can use Canopus HQ files in Premiere PRO CS3 but you're editing (processing and export) will be in the codec that you chose in Premiere. ie, HDV native.
i dont particularly want to continually change the codec from avchd to canopus then to hdv, quality is going to take a hit everytime. my worry is that i use cs3 across the whole platform with after effects, encore, audition & photoshop - i can probably afford to upgrade to cs4 premiere at some point soon but not the whole creative suite.
what i'm trying to say is that i don't think i will be able to use canopus hq properly with cs3 which makes getting it free with the hmc151 kind of worthless for me unless i use the very limited edius neo2 for editing - which i don't want to do. Has anyone had any joy using canopus hq with cs3 - please let me know if you have.
i get the feeling i would still have to buy cineform to edit with until i can afford cs4 & a better computer - i hope someone can prove me wrong......
 
i'm glad to hear you've run some tests yourself.
i hate to throw a wrench in the works, but i've not been totally satisfied with the canopus codecs. my main complaint being that i lose a lot of sharpness/detail and some color saturation unless i transcode to max quality lossless. and the HUGE file sizes of lossless are simply not workable for me.

i would say that if you are going the cs3/4 route to make sure to use a codec premiere will accept. edius is a rock-solid nle and handles anything like a champ.

but since i can't seem to transcode to canopus codecs without losing the detail and color that make my HD clips worthwhile, i've had to resort to a film-style workflow, using the transcoded avis only as an intermediate, doing my final renders from the original mts files.
 
thanks for the advice averan, interesting that you don't really rate the canopus hq, do admit to it seeming a less vivid transcode than cineforms. Edius definitely seems to be highly regarded for solid editing particularly of avchd - but i do quite a lot of work between premiere & after effects with greenscreen etc & worry edius neo2 is too limiting for what i need.
i've read of others proxy editing but was hoping 1 step transcode but would be enough. guess i'll have to start with neo2 then buy cineform/cs4 when i can afford, though i need to do some keying in after effects - wonder if ae can handle the canopus hq & output the same?
 
i haven't had any trouble editing canopus codecs inside AE.

but for the chroma keyed clips you might want to make sure to transcode to the highest/lossless quality you can.

of course cs4 can take the raw avchd files, which is nice when you're only working on a couple of clips.
 
good to know canopus works ok with ae, on the other hand cineform looks good for keying though i'm not sure how it gets 4:2:2 from 4:2:0.
think i will go with the free edius for now & get cineform when i can, need to do some split screen stuff with next project, hopefully neo2 can handle that else i'll use ae as a work around
thanks again for all the help
 
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