Canon's 4K Cinema EOS Official Announcement & Latest Info-NAB 2012

kylevant said:
The real truth is that at $15k, Scarlet starts becoming a reality for many. I'm sure that if you're willing to drop $15k on a camera then you sure as hell don't want to have all the usual DSLR troubles. It's not a cinema camera, it's still a DSLR. If they had zebras, focus peaking, waveforms, viewfinders, and whatever else you usually find on a cinema camera in the body of a DSLR then it wouldn't have been an issue - people will have overlooked the DSLR form factor. But now: It's still a DSLR, a really cool one yes, but still a DSLR with DSLR disadvantages - at $15k.
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I completely disagree. I own an Epic-X, a GH2 and a couple of GoPros. I personally would rent a $15K DSLR precisely because it was a DSLR. When I need to be discreet (read: skip permits), a DSLR is the only game in town. I currently use my GH2 for that, but it can only do so much. And when I'm shooting, the last thing I want are image problems – aliasing, softness, moire. It's got to work, because I only have my talent for that particular day.

So yeah, I'm thrilled that there's now a reliable, high-resolution DSLR for discreet shooting. If it costs less, fine, I wouldn't complain. But for what it does, I can spend the $600 to avoid spending the money on permits.
 
Canon 1D C 4K data rate: 500Mbit/s
Redcode42 (1:8 compression) is 336Mbit/s

I know the RED is RAW, but it's still more compressed. Just sayin':)
 
Small form factor is very important in filming and clicking wildlife. I just came back from Sundarbans in India (the largest single block of magrove forest in the world). The forest department has erected wire fencing to protect the people from man-eating tigers. Near a water hole, if you sight a tiger, the only way to film is to climb the wire fencing and film handheld. For that I need this small form factor.

Also carrying all the equipment in the wilds is a big challenge. So in these situations, large cameras means you lose the shot. The only challenge is to find the sufficient funds for buying this camera. You guys in US have better facilities at renting which is not the case in other parts of the world.

I was to test a 1D X later this month. However, the 1D X availability is delayed till June. So I guess they will tweak the codec a bit more before they release it. Lets see how good the 1DX and the 1D C are in filming. I am convinced based on the specs. Lets see when they are out in the wild. Hopefully will start my project later this year with a 1D C. I am actually happy with the 1DC recording 4K at APS-H. For me it becomes the same as my Mark IV. By full frame I would have lost the 1.3x crop factor. So it helps in wildlife. Lets hope a few guys go to NAB and tell us how good the camera is.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
I agree too, that the HVX200 + adaptor look is still pretty sweet. I think because of the solid codec and because, in fact there was something unusual about the adaptor look when done right.... now I'm waiting to see who 'decides' to go back to an adaptor to get that look. It will happen.
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Shot my first two films on that setup, I do like the look, but it doesn't look as good, or get even in the same zip code in low light performance as my 5Dmk2.
 
Menno Mennes said:
It is 1999…and there was the release of one of the most terrifying films which I ever have seen, named THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT. Brilliant script and simple story, mainly filmed on video (HI 8) The picture quality wasn’t important. With a budget of
$ 25.000 and the turnover $ 250.00.000,-- , This was one of the American most successful low-budget films…
In other words buy a camera that you can afford and shoot. If the story is ok the audience don’t see small technical slip-up…
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To each his own, but personally, to me Blair Witch only proved that you sell anything with the right marketing. Everyone says the film was made for under $25k, what they forget is the $1 Million+ that was spent to promote it. I hated it so much I stormed out the theater and demanded my money back...and I got it too.
 
Erich Ocean said:
I completely disagree. I own an Epic-X, a GH2 and a couple of GoPros. I personally would rent a $15K DSLR precisely because it was a DSLR. When I need to be discreet (read: skip permits), a DSLR is the only game in town. I currently use my GH2 for that, but it can only do so much. And when I'm shooting, the last thing I want are image problems – aliasing, softness, moire. It's got to work, because I only have my talent for that particular day.

So yeah, I'm thrilled that there's now a reliable, high-resolution DSLR for discreet shooting. If it costs less, fine, I wouldn't complain. But for what it does, I can spend the $600 to avoid spending the money on permits.
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Looks like I'm proven wrong then. It may actually have a place in the market...

snowleopard said:
Permits?

View attachment 51885
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Haha! LMAO! That's looks like me when the security guards start arriving, along with my crew in the back - as worried as hell "You do have permission right? Well, uhm..." Man, I really hate security guards...
 
It is a shame that the C-DSLR has taken so much spotlight from the C500. The C500 is a really big, brave step for Canon... A true competitor to Epic in the film world and a 2K 4:4:4 downscale for broadcast.

I love the images coming off the C300, so I can only image how 2K or 4K RAW 12bit images will look, off that sensor.
 
Jay Birch said:
We are consumers, we don't get to decide the price or specs... We just get to decide if we want to buy.
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I agree... I think the film industry is a strange and unique market. Educationally speaking people can spend an enormous amount of money to get a college degree, in some cases near doctor or lawyer kinds of money, with near zero promise of a job waiting on the other end. Work wise more people will work for free or near nothing in this industry and bring equipment. Los Angeles may be the worst market in this regard. A lot of talented people working for very very cheap in this extremely competitive market. I lived and worked in LA and saw this first hand. Now that I have left LA I find people coming to my area and they call and ask for day rates. When I give them they are always telling me what they can get in LA. In LA I can get, "a guy with a 5D Mark II, with a four light kit, and a sound package for $200". I often respond that they should fly that person out with them ;-) I am not sure, but it seems to me that maybe the people crying most about camera specs and unfairness are the people that are underselling themselves. In the end, we are all entitled to charge what we want and make the living we want, just like the camera companies have that choice... Not many people would knock someone for charging more money per day or job, in fact I am thankful their are people who charge more than I do, would I like to charge what they do, yes, would I like to have a more expensive camera, yes, that day will come... on the other hand, I can't say that any client has ever chosen not to go with me because I don't have a certain camera. I shoot with the canon 5D and my work has been televised locally and nationally. I am always learning and growing as an artist and trying to better my skills, but I will always agree with the statement, "it's not the equipment holding you back." I am thankful that we live in a time of all these wonderful options. Yes it's confusing, yes it can be frustrating, but when you distill it all down, we are very fortunate that these companies are competing and bringing us these technologies to perform our craft and they have earned the right to charge whatever they see fit as we have the right to purchase or not. Sorry if this post is a bit random, just find myself always thinking about these things when I read over posts these days.

chris
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
To each his own, but personally, to me Blair Witch only proved that you sell anything with the right marketing. Everyone says the film was made for under $25k, what they forget is the $1 Million+ that was spent to promote it. I hated it so much I stormed out the theater and demanded my money back...and I got it too.
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And as Chris Rock said after he saw it "Where'd the other $24,000 go?"
 
C-Mac said:
I agree... I think the film industry is a strange and unique market. Educationally speaking people can spend an enormous amount of money to get a college degree, in some cases near doctor or lawyer kinds of money, with near zero promise of a job waiting on the other end. Work wise more people will work for free or near nothing in this industry and bring equipment. Los Angeles may be the worst market in this regard. A lot of talented people working for very very cheap in this extremely competitive market. I lived and worked in LA and saw this first hand. Now that I have left LA I find people coming to my area and they call and ask for day rates. When I give them they are always telling me what they can get in LA. In LA I can get, "a guy with a 5D Mark II, with a four light kit, and a sound package for $200". I often respond that they should fly that person out with them ;-) I am not sure, but it seems to me that maybe the people crying most about camera specs and unfairness are the people that are underselling themselves. In the end, we are all entitled to charge what we want and make the living we want, just like the camera companies have that choice... Not many people would knock someone for charging more money per day or job, in fact I am thankful their are people who charge more than I do, would I like to charge what they do, yes, would I like to have a more expensive camera, yes, that day will come... on the other hand, I can't say that any client has ever chosen not to go with me because I don't have a certain camera. I shoot with the canon 5D and my work has been televised locally and nationally. I am always learning and growing as an artist and trying to better my skills, but I will always agree with the statement, "it's not the equipment holding you back." I am thankful that we live in a time of all these wonderful options. Yes it's confusing, yes it can be frustrating, but when you distill it all down, we are very fortunate that these companies are competing and bringing us these technologies to perform our craft and they have earned the right to charge whatever they see fit as we have the right to purchase or not. Sorry if this post is a bit random, just find myself always thinking about these things when I read over posts these days.

chris
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It is not random, it is your opinion on topic. The only thing that bothers me is to see popping up, as usual, the idea there are only two sides here. We can discuss the price without be anti-anything. We can still see no other choice unless to buy because there's no other option out there under the same circumstances. Even if we know the risk to take in these days when we buy technology. Even and especially when we think we should be charged for a fraction of the price offered by supply. I believe a lot of frustration comes from the fact a lot of people would like to be in condition to order, that's why. And with this price, they won't dare to do it. Others can and will buy but are not happy with the price to pay. I wouldn't even call it frustration. There's not only one or two type of posters in this discussion. Like the situation you had the care to describe about your own experience in LA. Thanks for posting BTW. I am sure even in LA there will be distinct type of 5D-class owners. The same worldwide, or surely more colorful, in this business.
 
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huski said:
Canon 1D C 4K data rate: 500Mbit/s
Redcode42 (1:8 compression) is 336Mbit/s

I know the RED is RAW, but it's still more compressed. Just sayin':)
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Red has selectable compression from 3:1 to 12:1. Quality of compression is important too.

Perfection is relative to purpose. The level of quality acceptable for Blair Witch or 28 days would not work at all for something like Miss Pettigru Lives for Day. Girl with the Dragon Tattoo has been done successfully both ways, mediocre video and state of the art 4k digital cinema.
 
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The Amazing Spiderman and The Social Network used a compression ratio above 8:1 so...if it works for them it'll work for you. Perspective is everything.
 
Emanuel said:
It is not random, it is your opinion on topic. The only thing that bothers me is, as usual, to see the idea there are only two sides here. We can discuss the price without be anti-anything. We can still see no other choice unless to buy because there's no other option out there under the same circumstances. Even if we know the risk to take over these days when we buy technology. Even and especially when we think we should be charged for a fraction of the price offered by supply. I believe a lot of frustration comes from the fact a lot of people would like to be in condition to order, that's why. And with this price, they won't dare to do it. Others can and will buy but are not happy with the price to pay. I wouldn't even call it frustration. There's not only one or two type of posters in this discussion. Like the situation you had the care to describe about your own experience in LA. Thanks for posting BTW. I am sure even in LA there will be distinct type of 5D-class owners. The same, or surely more colorful, worldwide in this business.
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I'm currently in the process of rebooting my business in a new location and I think it can be frustrating to see the discrepancies in what you get for your price, but I also know prices will come down and I have the choice to buy or not. I honestly wish Panasonic would give us an s35 with the organic look of the HVX200 cameras, that's on my wish list. I'm not a fan of 4/3, just not my taste. I could buy a C300 or Scarlet if I really wanted one, but my clients are not clamoring for it, at this point. I do want one, but with the pace of change in the last few months and the fact that my client's are not asking me for better than what I have makes me opt to buy long term equipment like lighting, stands, motorized dolly, or things that help me build my craft until I see a greater need or price point that makes more sense for me.

I went to Los Angels to work as a DP, unfortunately a car accident caused 3 herniated discs in my back and it took 2 years to recover to the point where I could do a day of hand holding camera again and then go back out the next day. I became an editor working on feature films and became type cast as such... fortunately my back got somewhat better and the camera's got lighter ;-) so I am able to work as an operating DP again... I have found it hard to build my skills as a DP without being able to operate, more of a budget thing as you get started. This is become less of an obstacle. Anyhow, I feel very fortunate and happy to be able to work as a DP again.

Anyhow, I enjoy a healthy discussion about the tech, what people like, and the relevance of a price point to be very interesting. On the other hand, I find it a bit silly to hear comments like "I'll never buy this brand again". If that brand turned around tomorrow and gave them everything they wanted, how silly would it be to not buy it.

I love that Canon is entering this new territory and as such they have to work out and find their pricing according to all factors. I can definitely see how some people would rather buy the Canon, Sony, or Panasonic brands over the Red brand even if the specs are not always equal. I am extremely happy and thankful that Red entered the market and the fact that they have had such an amazing influence on other companies.

On a side note, a couple weeks back I delivered a TV commercial that I Directed/DP'ed/and edited to 8 different TV stations and I had to produce different files and compressions for each TV stations. A bit of a Headache. I would like to see a bit more standardization in my local TV stations, LOL.

chris
 
Thanks Chris. I find your posts very insightful. You look like someone we'd be happy to meet personally as some other friends I've done over here. Hope one day we may meet. If you'll come to Europe any day let me know.

C-Mac said:
Anyhow, I enjoy a healthy discussion about the tech, what people like, and the relevance of a price point to be very interesting. On the other hand, I find it a bit silly to hear comments like "I'll never buy this brand again". If that brand turned around tomorrow and gave them everything they wanted, how silly would it be to not buy it.
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C-Mac said:
I love that Canon is entering this new territory and as such they have to work out and find their pricing according to all factors. I can definitely see how some people would rather buy the Canon, Sony, or Panasonic brands over the Red brand even if the specs are not always equal. I am extremely happy and thankful that Red entered the market and the fact that they have had such an amazing influence on other companies.
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I agree with you in 100%, aside the fact I would also salute a bit more of standardization as you mentioned out of these quotes, even though with the risks to have who may take advantage of it as usual in this industry ;)

Greetings from Adriatic's mountains as of now,

Emanuel

PS: Nice to find others with the same POV, isn't it? :-)
 
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