Canon's 4K Cinema EOS Official Announcement & Latest Info-NAB 2012

Canon should be the one capable of serving the masses, not the one serving the elitist niches...
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Since you repeated 3 times let me tell you 'elitist' and a $12000 product' do not mix well together.(Not even in the filmmaker's universe)

Low budget indie filmmaker doesn't mean 'a filmmaker who can't effort a camera', it mostly means a filmmaker not having a studio backing for distribution.
As so many people mentioned, currently there are great cameras(Canon or others) for almost every budget bracket. If you can't make a worthy film with whats available now perhaps its time you look at yourself to see whats lacking.
Elitists have nothing to do with that....
 
It's a little depressing listening to all the whining about each and every Canon camera. When the C300 when announced, I was like many - concerned about the limitations of 8 bit. But then we got to see the images, and for me they told the whole story. Canon turned conventional wisdom on its head.

This new camera is just 4:2:0 to card right? It'll be interesting to see how the image stacks up to that of the C300.
 
eleison said:
Lets see how Canon fare if the average person doesn't buy canon anymore because they know canon products are crippled for the consumer market.
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I'm sure the average person, who is satisfied with a T2i or 60D because that's all they can afford and it meets their needs, will be happy with whatever the successor to the T2i and 60D are. The average person was never even in the market for the 5D let alone something like the C300 or C500. Hell, the average person probably doesn't even know those cameras exist. If the average person is going to leave Canon it's because they are taking 'good enough' pictures & movies on their cell phones and not because Canon announced a $15k, 4k camera before NAB.


-Andrew
 
tl;dr

Still waiting for a box with a super 35mm CCD that shoots raw 24p to any kind of output and thats all it does for under 6k.

Till then HVX200 and redrock it is. Still looks great aesthetically speaking blown up on a movie screen to me.
 
I'm not too interested in buying a camera at the moment, as DSLRs work for personal projects and if a project needs something more than that the client is going to be paying anyway. My concern with this camera would be the H264 for HD, shame they couldn't include the C300 codec for broadcast etc.
 
adkimery said:
I'm sure the average person, who is satisfied with a T2i or 60D because that's all they can afford and it meets their needs, will be happy with whatever the successor to the T2i and 60D are. The average person was never even in the market for the 5D let alone something like the C300 or C500. Hell, the average person probably doesn't even know those cameras exist. If the average person is going to leave Canon it's because they are taking 'good enough' pictures & movies on their cell phones and not because Canon announced a $15k, 4k camera before NAB.


-Andrew
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Around 2 years ago, being the local camera geek; my cousins and friends asked me what camera they should get. I said Canon. If they ask me now..... what do you think my answer will be :-) hahahahahah. Since we are having this conversation right now, it not just me who is upset. Its other people like me. At the end of the day, people like me doesn't matter to canon. That's fine. I can live with that. They want to only cater to people in the film industry with big pockets. I'm slowly beginning to understand that... yeah, it's fairly obvious I guess.. (to be honest, I'm kinda ashamed that its taken so long)

Canon should have never issued the 24p update to the 5d2.. That gave the little people hope. At the end of day it doesn't matter. For the little people, they will need to wait for a company to revolutionize the video dslr field. It ain't canon.
 
Jimmy Moss said:
Till then HVX200 and redrock it is. Still looks great aesthetically speaking blown up on a movie screen to me.
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Awesome attitude. If your current rig is working for you, think of the thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars of gear upgrade fees you've avoided. Well done. Only buy up when you've run into the limitations of your current gear, or the new product opens up new opportunities for you that makes it pay for itself...
 
Stuart U said:
If this were true then Canon would have made RED 1, Scarlet and Epic: three cameras that have, for the past couple of years, been used in the most high profile cinema productions known to cinema. Is Ridley Scott using Canons to shoot Promethius, or Peter Jackson to shoot The Hobbit?


What do you know that Ridley and Sir Peter don't know?


From Che to Social Network and more, Canon innovation has been conspicuously absent.


Give your head a shake man!
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I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much on RED, but some chit chat about industry competitors might be relevant.

I think Canon (or Sony) could have duplicated what RED did if they wanted to. There are a lot of good engineers at those companies (and both have a long history of in-house experience with sensor and DSP design) and good engineers can design almost anything you want, if you give them enough time and money. It's not like RED has a lock on any particular technology. Management just has to allow the engineers to do it. But in a business, management has certain strategies and those strategies dictate what the engineers design.

My point about RED is just my own opinion based on observation from the outside. What I see is that they're inexperienced compared to a larger company with an established engineering department with a core group who have been around for dozens of years. RED made major mess ups like the metal re-spin of their ASIC and the Big Bug issue that dogged them for months. Of course, engineers at other companies screw up too, but just from my observation (and my own opinion only), RED's engineering seem like they're in constant catch up/firefighting mode. I wouldn't be surprised if Deanan DaSilva left because he was just too burned out.

But this is natural seeing how RED has not existed all that long and it's probably a hodgepodge of people that Jannard grouped together. Some of the engineering may even be outsourced to design houses. Of course, things could change in the future as they improve their development process, but for now I just get the feeling that the team as whole is not very disciplined and have a hard time turning product cycles quickly, especially since Jannard tends towards major product changes, which usually carries greatly increased engineering and production risks.
 
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My point about RED is just my own opinion based on observation from the outside. What I see is that they're inexperienced compared to a larger company with an established engineering department with a core group who have been around for dozens of years. RED made major mess ups like the metal re-spin of their ASIC and the Big Bug issue that dogged them for months. Of course, engineers at other companies screw up too, but just from my observation (and my own opinion only), RED's engineering seem like they're in constant catch up/firefighting mode. I wouldn't be surprised if Deanan DaSilva left because he was just too burned out.
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I don't know that I agree with this, The way I see it, Red has been very vocal about their building process, and have openly admitted the mistakes they have made. Canon on the other hand is very tight lipped. And I have never heard Canon vocalize any manufacturing mistakes ever.

Your talking Canon being a multi billion dollar a year company, vs Red who is a multi million dollar a year company.
 
Jimmy Moss said:
tl;dr

Still waiting for a box with a super 35mm CCD that shoots raw 24p to any kind of output and thats all it does for under 6k.

Till then HVX200 and redrock it is. Still looks great aesthetically speaking blown up on a movie screen to me.
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I agree too, that the HVX200 + adaptor look is still pretty sweet. I think because of the solid codec and because, in fact there was something unusual about the adaptor look when done right.... now I'm waiting to see who 'decides' to go back to an adaptor to get that look. It will happen.
 
eleison said:
Around 2 years ago, being the local camera geek; my cousins and friends asked me what camera they should get. I said Canon. If they ask me now..... what do you think my answer will be :-) hahahahahah. Since we are having this conversation right now, it not just me who is upset. Its other people like me. At the end of the day, people like me doesn't matter to canon. That's fine. I can live with that. They want to only cater to people in the film industry with big pockets. I'm slowly beginning to understand that... yeah, it's fairly obvious I guess.. (to be honest, I'm kinda ashamed that its taken so long)

Canon should have never issued the 24p update to the 5d2.. That gave the little people hope. At the end of day it doesn't matter. For the little people, they will need to wait for a company to revolutionize the video dslr field. It ain't canon.
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So you recommended the 5dII to your cousins and friends who were average consumers?

I guess I don't get how the C300/500 impacts a consumer who would consider something like the 60D at the upper end of their price range. Sure, I can see how no-budget filmmakers who hoped Canon would give them a Scarlet for $2k would be crestfallen but I don't see what this has to do w/any of Canon's day-to-day consumer level customers. Cameras like the T2i and 60D didn't suddenly stop working because of these recent announcements.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but I feel like a lot of people going ape sh*t on Canon right now are just 'grinders' (clients that want to pay the absolute least amount possible but expect top shelf service).


-Andrew
 
adkimery said:
So you recommended the 5dII to your cousins and friends who were average consumers?
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Nope, I recommended canon as a brand because the company was innovative in my eyes and seemed to listen to their customers. Ultimately IIRC most of them bought a t2i. One bought a t1i. One guy actually bought a s95. However, one did buy a Nikon dslr. I thought he was a freak at the time.

adkimery said:
I guess I don't get how the C300/500 impacts a consumer who would consider something like the 60D at the upper end of their price range. Sure, I can see how no-budget filmmakers who hoped Canon would give them a Scarlet for $2k would be crestfallen but I don't see what this has to do w/any of Canon's day-to-day consumer level customers. Cameras like the T2i and 60D didn't suddenly stop working because of these recent announcements.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but I feel like a lot of people going ape sh*t on Canon right now are just 'grinders' (clients that want to pay the absolute least amount possible but expect top shelf service).


-Andrew
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When a company seemingly puts in an AA filter in order to just degrade video... that's just bad karma. I hope the 'grinders' just avoid canon. Canon built up a lot of good will with the 5d2.. they are now losing a lot of good will. I guess the hardcore video people who are accustomed to paying $$$$$$$$ for video, I guess they don't care. Which is a good thing, because I have a feeling these hardcore people will have to contribute more to Canon's revenue due to the lost of revenue from the regular joe blows.. :-)
 
At the end of the day, many of us just feel abandoned. My t2i is still awesome to me, but I have feeling that it's going to be the last Canon DSLR for video that I own. The little guys relationship with Canon is over. Hail Sony and Panasonic and mirror-less cameras.
 
adkimery said:
Cameras like the T2i and 60D didn't suddenly stop working because of these recent announcements.
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And going further to the poster shooting on the HVX and 35mm adapter - same point and well said.

IMO over all on these new announcements, cant be bad to have more competition in the market place. More competition usually means the consumers win.
 
huski said:
And by the way... everybody wanted a DSLR with a clean output with the pricepoint between the 1DX, and the C300. Now that it is here, everybody's complaining...
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Why would anyone want that. There is absolutely not one reason in the world a T4i couldn't provide that for $700.
 
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