Canon's 4K Cinema EOS Official Announcement & Latest Info-NAB 2012

[pulpfiction007]

Canon marketing are genius actually- This is what I find sort of amusing

DVX user A says, I'm thinking of my T2i/7D/5DMK2 as a modern day cinema cam - DVX user B says: nah it's just a stills cam with video tacked on, it has moire and aliasing etc, terrible form factor, etc etc
DVX user A later says, I'm thinking of the MK3 as a cinema cam, the moire and aliasing are gone, it's a bit soft but the footage can be post sharpened to look really good - DVX user B says: nah it's a stills cam with video tacked on
Canon then takes a stills cam with video tacked on, adds a new format (4K MJPEG) slaps a Red C on it and NOW it's a cinema camera! lol...gotta love it

 

[PappasArts]

I thought we were talking about cameras though?

In a game where we throw cameras maybe instead of a footballs .

Seriously though. If Jannard/RED is the quarterback, and the end user is the receiver, it makes sense that they think ahead of step.
Looking forward to seeing what they have to say next week.

Pappas
http://PAPPASARTS.WORDPRESS.COM
http://TWITTER.COM/PAPPASARTS

 

[adkimery]

"A quarterback doesn't throw where the receiver is... he throws where the receiver will be."Jim Jannard

I'm all for giving Jannard credit where credit is due, but please don't give him credit for a famous Wayne Gretzky quote.

 

[cowpunk52]

I said it before, and I will say it again; Canon have neglected the very people, the low-budget indie-filmmakers/cinematographers, that gave them their reputation as a company capable of creating cinematic images.

Canon, as a digital imaging company, is growing. It's only natural that they would target the high-end and professional users with products and features they require at prices that are competitive in relation to the market it serves.

How does the 5DmkIII neglect you? It's a vast improvement over the 5DmkII. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Can you get better image quality by spending more money? Without a doubt! Is that different from any other point in history? Without question, no. Because you bought a $1500 7D, does that make you entitled to the most advanced tech at consumer prices? I don't think so. I spent over $2,000 on a GL2 back in 2005, then I spent $3400 on an XHA1 in 2008, I spent $700 on a Rebel XT, and $2200 on a 5D, and $2800 on a 5DmkII kit. I've shot movies and various productions professionally on the XL1, GL2, XHA1, XLH1, 7D, 5DmkII and XF300 cameras. Seems like Canon really owes me more than they owe you! Does any of that make me more entitled to cheap new tech than you? No, it doesn't. Company's don't price their product because they owe their customers a favor. They price their products for the features it has and the market they're intended to serve, bottom line.

 

[Cosimo Bullo]

Canon marketing are genius actually- This is what I find sort of amusing

DVX user A says, I'm thinking of my T2i/7D/5DMK2 as a modern day cinema cam - DVX user B says: nah it's just a stills cam with video tacked on, it has moire and aliasing etc, terrible form factor, etc etc
DVX user A later says, I'm thinking of the MK3 as a cinema cam, the moire and aliasing are gone, it's a bit soft but the footage can be post sharpened to look really good - DVX user B says: nah it's a stills cam with video tacked on
Canon then takes a stills cam with video tacked on, adds a new format (4K MJPEG) slaps a Red C on it and NOW it's a cinema camera! lol...gotta love it

So very well put... whoops, don't spill the koolaid.

 

[Teodor Miljevic]

I think the eos 1C is so much like the 1Dx (and of course i am just speculating ) but what you are actually paying 8000$ for is a better cooling sollution a bigger buffer and an unlocking of a probably software crippled hdmi. the following calculation shows that the 1dx pushes the exact same amount of pixels as the 1C.The 1dx can do 14 pictures at 18mp so let us look at what that gives. It will also give you the added bonus of explaining why it doesent support PAL (because it cant ) 18*14=252 ->252/24 =10,5 ->10,5 /4 (as in 4k)=2,625 this gives you that 14 18megapixel pictures pushes around thethe same amount of pixels as a 24 pictures that are 4000x2625 pixels.
Are they targeting just the movie buisness or are they just trying to rebrand and sell you almost the same camera for double the price? you be the judge.
Depending on if the magiclantern guys can acces windowing the shere raw power of the digic5 in the 1dx is enough to push the pixels and depending on the writingspeed and buffer it should in theory be possible to at least make the 1dx do 4k for a few seconds . but I dont know about cooling and in the end it is all speculation but if you think about it all it kind of makes sense.
The only resonable usage for the 1c contra a C300 or a red scarlet would not be as a crashcam (at 15k isnt that kind of steep?) but for stealing sets in expensive cities.
come on canon dubbel the price for a modded 1 dx that would be resonable if someone was doing it by hand in a shop manually putting in more memory and beefing up cooling you are massproducing (or maybe not with that ridiculous price

 

[AdrianF]

Canon then takes a stills cam with video tacked on, adds a new format (4K MJPEG) slaps a Red C on it and NOW it's a cinema camera! lol...gotta love it

It's hilarious. I was expecting something like the C500, but a 15 grand 5D, with a few questionable add ons, just smells like a race to join the gold rush.

 

[cowpunk52]

But yet there seems to be more complaints regarding canon than Sony. Perhaps Canon should not be listening to these people -- there might be less complaints.

So, you think that Canon shouldn't be listening to the professionals that Canon wants to create a camera for? Then Canon releases a camera for them, and they can't get them out the door fast enough! Go ahead and try ordering a C300 and see how long the wait list is. I'm not seeing a reason for them to follow your advice...

 

[PappasArts]

Canon only had a video division ('cameras for weddings'), now they try to lead in hollywood (post-5DII age).

Canon has been a light weight in the digital video market for years. They've decided to step into the ring to fight as a middle weight and heavy weight.This is not an area they have years under the belt to claim. So they better be prepared to fight hard. Sony and Panasonic alone have a long history in professional/broadcasting technology and support that Canon can't touch or match at this time. RED is a new player in that sense, however they are smart, and have punched their way to the top. Canon is going to need play an "A" game to survive the others to claim victory. Canon definitely has the resources to do be a formidable fighter, it's just whether they choose to exploit their assets to do so. However- RED will move faster because they want to, and need to. The others will at least in the foreseeable future lag behind RED in certain areas in this high end market.

Pappas
http://PAPPASARTS.WORDPRESS.COM
http://TWITTER.COM/PAPPASARTS

 

[cowpunk52]

Canon only had a video division ('cameras for weddings'), now they try to lead in hollywood (post-5DII age).

Remember, digital cinematography is still an emerging field. 35mm is on a steep decline, Kodak is getting out the game, who knows how long Fuji will last. Because of filmmaker's embrace in digital imaging, Canon saw an opportunity to expand it's market into professional filmmaking and production. It's got years of experience in lensing already, and more experience in digital imaging, so it makes sense that they would jump in. They have the pieces, they just needed to create department - so they did, and now we have Cinema EOS. Seems like a win for everybody.

 

[Emanuel]

More nonsense. There would not be such a self defended culture at RED if people were truly listening.
In fact I have rarely seen less openness to divergent points of view than coming from that environment.

That said, it is hard to beat the inscrutable nature of the Canon corporate culture either for total deafness.

There is something about need that makes people have to sit up and listen. Maybe Sony is in the position of most need right now.

No yoclay, I am used to appreciate your posts but...

nonsense is you giving the idea they don't listen when you or others come to Jarred's born home to unfairly bash the brand he's helping to build. Do not confound a legion of fanboys with a/the clever RED team, please?

So, as much as Sony if it is your case, make your voice to be listened if you need to.
I did: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66159-Thanks-note-in-a-memorable-weekend&highlight=

(thanks) to Jim and Jarred

For listening:

11-29-2010
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?52245-Scarlet-S35-is-now...&p=684937&viewfull=1#post684937

12-01-2010
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?52420-EPIC-M...&p=686194&viewfull=1#post686194

12-17-2010
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...iusz-Wolski...&p=693515&viewfull=1#post693515

03-16-2011
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?56311-EPIC-production...&p=739961&viewfull=1#post739961

07-16-2011
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...osted-some-good-news-regarding-RED-EPIC/page6

08-15-2011
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?62040-The-future.../page16

10-25-2011
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...d-logistics...&p=846367&viewfull=1#post846367

11-03-2011
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?65686-I-m-so-bored...&p=853294&viewfull=1#post853294

among other posts and many other posters...

(...)

 

[Steve R]

Then Canon releases a camera for them, and they can't get them out the door fast enough! Go ahead and try ordering a C300 and see how long the wait list is. I'm not seeing a reason for them to follow your advice...

I was with you on everything else you said, but this just isn't correct; the C300 in PL mount is in stock lots of places (including B&H), and has been every time I've checked in the past 3-4 weeks.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839221-REG/Canon_5819B002_EOS_C300_PL_Cinema.html

 

[Simon Shasha]

Canon, as a digital imaging company, is growing. It's only natural that they would target the high-end and professional users with products and features they require at prices that are competitive in relation to the market it serves.

How does the 5DmkIII neglect you? It's a vast improvement over the 5DmkII. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Can you get better image quality by spending more money? Without a doubt! Is that different from any other point in history? Without question, no. Because you bought a $1500 7D, does that make you entitled to the most advanced tech at consumer prices? I don't think so. I spent over $2,000 on a GL2 back in 2005, then I spent $3400 on an XHA1 in 2008, I spent $700 on a Rebel XT, and $2200 on a 5D, and $2800 on a 5DmkII kit. I've shot movies and various productions professionally on the XL1, GL2, XHA1, XLH1, 7D, 5DmkII and XF300 cameras. Seems like Canon really owes me more than they owe you! Does any of that make me more entitled to cheap new tech than you? No, it doesn't. Company's don't price their product because they owe their customers a favor. They price their products for the features it has and the market they're intended to serve, bottom line.

Wow. Have you been to my house? Have you seen how much I have invested in Canon cameras and lenses over the years? Mate, I'll tell you how the 5DMK3 neglects me - it says "1080P" on it, but it is nowhere near 1080P. Stop treating Canon like an under-dog. As I said before, Canon dwarfs RED in terms of funds and resources. Canon dwarfs ARRI in terms of funds and resources. Canon should be the one capable of serving the masses, not the one serving the elitist niches...(after all, the processor on the C300 can be found in the $300 handy-cams...). Canon is not listening. Sony is listening. I love Canon, I've been buying and shooting on their cameras for over 12 years now, but I hope the FS700 kicks the C300 square in the nuts and brings Canon off their high-horse.

And you know what - everyone should complain about these prices - make the most damn noise you can - if it weren't for complaining, you'd still be shooting 30P on your 5DMK2...

 

[cowpunk52]

I hope the FS700 kicks the C300 square in the nuts and brings Canon off their high-horse.

Why have so much hate for a company? Who cares? You like the FS700 and it's specs work for you and your client? Buy it! Shoot with it! Make tons of money and beautiful images with it! You're only causing pain for yourself by getting so worked up.

And you know what - everyone should complain about these prices - make the most damn noise you can

Go for it! I'd love nothing more than if Canon gave us more camera for less moolah! But I don't have time bemoan the price of cameras - I'm too busy shooting & making money with them - and voting with my wallet.

if it weren't for complaining, you'd still be shooting 30P on your 5DMK2...

I sold my 5DmkII two months after I bought it, and starting using a hacked GH1 in it's place. I didn't b**ch on the internet about it, I just used what worked. You've got a ton of great choices at every price bracket now that can give you everything you need to make quality images - there's zero reason to complain about what you don't have.

 

[cowpunk52]

I was with you on everything else you said, but this just isn't correct; the C300 in PL mount is in stock lots of places (including B&H), and has been every time I've checked in the past 3-4 weeks.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839221-REG/Canon_5819B002_EOS_C300_PL_Cinema.html

Fair enough on the PL mount. EF mount is a different story, though, and has proven to be much more popular. I should have specified.

 

[cowpunk52]

Mate, I'll tell you how the 5DMK3 neglects me - it says "1080P" on it, but it is nowhere near 1080P.

Same with the HVX200, AF100, HPX500, Z1U, GH1, NEX 5n, A77, etc, etc - where was your outrage then?

 

[dustylense]

I'm gonna go with Cowpunk here. Don't like a camera, its price, or specs, go to another company or camera. Simple. As for 1080p printed on the box. Cow is right again. Lot's of cameras say 1080p, but don't truly resolve it. But they all play on a 1080 TV. That is what 1080p means these days.
I just spent the day matching my af100, xf105, and mk3. Af100 is a bit off. But I got the 3 cameras looking within 5% of each other in color and sharpness. I'm good on cameras for now. Not mad at any of these companies for making better and better cams.

 

[Barry_Green]

And you know what - everyone should complain about these prices - make the most damn noise you can -..

Well, first of all, DVXUser is nobody's hammer to try to beat any company over the head with. If you don't like a company's product, don't buy it. If you don't like their price point, don't buy it. But we are here for the exchange of information, not to become someone's soapbox because their personal budget doesn't allow for buying a particular product.

if it weren't for complaining, you'd still be shooting 30P on your 5DMK2.

Nonsense. Canon put 24p on the 5D Mark II because CERTAIN people told them to. What people? Guys like Rodney Charters, ASC and Shane Hurlbut, ASC. They didn't do the firmware update because of some mass outcry from end users... notice, if you will, the end users have had mass outcries for a comparable update on the 7D, and it never happened. Canon wanted in the digital cinema world, and Rodney and Shane were using the 5D, and they were the kind of guys Canon wanted to hear from. So they did what those guys asked, and in fact took it so far as to build an entire Cinema EOS division, specifically aimed at ASC members and the like.

 

[Emanuel]

Canon put 24p on the 5D Mark II because CERTAIN people told them to. What people? Guys like Rodney Charters, ASC and Shane Hurlbut, ASC. They didn't do the firmware update because of some mass outcry from end users...

Well, their marketing on their most popular firmware update said:

From inside and as already posted, Canon rep told me RED was under radar. EPIC's mention doesn't come up with no reason.

 

[eleison]

Well, their marketing on their most popular firmware update said:

From inside and as already posted, Canon rep told me RED was under radar. EPIC's mention doesn't come up with no reason.

Hahahaha... like most people say, if you dont' like it, don't buy it. I think its time for people who are upset, to move on. Don't buy Canon's stuff anymore. We know canon can do better for the amateur market, but they are just greedy... well, at least that's my opinion. I plan to no longer buy canon stuff. Let the "professionals" with deep pockets support canon. I believe in Karma Lets see how Canon fare if the average person doesn't buy canon anymore because they know canon products are crippled for the consumer market.