Canon XL H1 for short film?

H

Heartzz

Member
Im about to shoot a short film, and i would like it to look as best as possible including that it has the film look and tempo.

I have been offered a Canon XL H1, which at first seemed very nice, but know i have doubts.
First of all, there is very little information on the subject of 24p vs 24f. The canon canøt shoot true progressive but instead 24f which Canon claims as being equel in look and tempo, is that tru or? (im from Europa so it's PAL). Whats the best settings for not loosing too much quality when recording? What should i record on, harddisc, computer or tapes? What can i do in post and or what software can help me achieve the right tempo/speed? When i look at test of 24f it doesn't look like it has the right tempo/speed as when shooting 24p, what is your opinion? Please help me, im very insecure about this subject. Thx!
 
The truth of the matter is that 24f and 24p are just two different ways of creating a 23.976 framerate file, and thus there is no difference between 24f and 24p in terms of quality. If you are perceiving any difference in the footage of 24f and 24p its due to editing methods and other post-production elements and not the stock footage, because as I said, they are simply different methods that achieve the same thing.

Your other questions are vague. Film look and tempo is something that the director envisions for the story before the film is produced, and the director of photography makes that vision come to life on screen through the technical aspects. Therefore, the "best possible" film look and tempo is subjective since it depends on what the director is aiming to achieve. Talk to your director about what he wants, or if you're the director, figure out what elements of the story you wish to focus on in the cinematic language, and then work closely with your DP to make that happen.

As for what you should record on...workflow comes down to how you enjoy working on set. Some people like HDV (tapes) because even though they are sort of inconvenient to archive, you have a hardcopy of the footage in case something goes wrong in post or footage is accidently deleted on a computer. Others swear that solid state cards (P2 HD and Sony XS cards) feel more like shooting film and offer an easier, more convenient workflow while on set. Generally, I feel the workflow of solid state cards is better than HDV - but it has a downside. And that is if you accidently lose the footage on the card, or delete it, it's gone forever. No backup. So don't screw it up, and you're fine.

As far as post production, that's again something you have to decide what you're looking for before you head into it. Any non-linear editing software will likely be your best bet (Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premier...). Tempo and speed are not dictated by what software you use.
 
I don't think you understand what i mean. When you do short films you can't expect that the Dp knows everything we are all in the process to learn, so as a director it is wise to try and understand the technical aspects beforehand. I know what I want, but that doesn't mean that I or the DP know how to.

As for the tempo many HDV short films does not have the same speed, flow whatever you wanna call it, as 35mm film. So that's why i am looking for the right settings to achieve that illusion, as best as possible.

About the record choice iv'e heard that if you record on tape you lose a lot of quality unlike if you record on a disc or card(but as far as i know the canon H1 cannot record on p2 cards or?) I don't care if you have to capture from tape and I don't need to be able to have material on set. I just don't wanna lose quality because of bad record choice.

At last some editing programs can help you achieve the film tempo by adjusting lets say 25p to 24p, that's why I am asking if you know any good ways to do this editing software or plugins which can help convert or something to the right film fps.
 
I've done a full feature documentary on XH-A1 (the same insides as XL-H1 but without interchangeable lens and HD-SDI output) so maybe you'll find my opinions useful ;)

1) 25f - It really is great. I don't think I've seen a better HDV then that. It really is superior then 25i and it leaves sony cineframe behind in terms of detail and overall quality. But.. It still is HDV and you have to remember that you're in 25Mb/s world and color correction and post production is limited. Not to point out the fact that many European (I don't know how it is in US) broadcasters don't accept HDV footage and you can have a real mess preparing to show your footage on TV.

2) I've never really used canon's built-in presets for color correction but I heard people saying good things about it. I set it up on the first day and didn't touch since - I think I used some information and presets I found on DVXuser - I think disjeta put those.

3)Recording is personal choice. If you plan on doing a lot guerrilla style you should stick with tapes: cheap, easy to handle and no additional hardware. Hard discs usually record HDV via firewire so basically you get exactly the same footage as on tape but already prepared for editing (the only flaw is that you have to fit hard drive unit somewhere). The best in term's of quality is the option to record HD-SDI signal onto some external device like a MacBook with Matrox MXO2 for example - expensive and takes time to set up but good if you plan to do a lot in post.

4) 25f should have the same tempo as 25p but maybe I'm mistaken. Anyway generally there is only one rule: "it's the man not the machine" and film-look depends mostly on your skills. For example Zodiac was shot on 2/3 chips and looks damn good!

Here's a still from XH-A1 25f. CC done in Vegas/MagicBullet looks.
wandajpg.jpg
 
Heartzz said:
As for the tempo many HDV short films does not have the same speed, flow whatever you wanna call it, as 35mm film. So that's why i am looking for the right settings to achieve that illusion, as best as possible.
Click to expand...

HD isn't ever going to look exactly like 35mm film. And if you want it to, not only do you have to have an adequate knowledge of lighting, exposure, and depth of field, but you should probably invest in a 35mm adapter so you can shoot through 35mm lenses. That will give you the ability to control the depth of field and create a filmic bokeh.


Heartzz said:
About the record choice iv'e heard that if you record on tape you lose a lot of quality unlike if you record on a disc or card(but as far as i know the canon H1 cannot record on p2 cards or?) I don't care if you have to capture from tape and I don't need to be able to have material on set. I just don't wanna lose quality because of bad record choice.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. Footage is compressed, but quality isn't lost because of that compression.

Heartzz said:
At last some editing programs can help you achieve the film tempo by adjusting lets say 25p to 24p, that's why I am asking if you know any good ways to do this editing software or plugins which can help convert or something to the right film fps.
Click to expand...

All non-linear editing programs will allow you to adjust sequence and project settings for your projects. However, its generally a good idea for performance that your sequence settings are the same as your source footage settings, and a lot of programs will prompt you to configure your settings if they're different. But if you shoot HDV 1080i/24p then in Final Cut Pro or whatever software you're using set your sequence settings to HDV 1080/24p (which is really 23.98) and you'll be good to go - what you shot will have the same tempo as what you're editing.
 
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If you want to check out a lot of stuff shot on an XL H1 and XL H1S, check out my site.

I mainly use this camera whenever I DP shoots, mostly setup with a mini35, superspeed cineprimes, and uncompressed HD-SDI recording. Now granted, when I shoot like this, I usually have a full film crew with me, but it'll give you an indication of what the camera is capable of. Even with my next 2 films with budgets estimated in the 7 figure range, I'm still seriously considering using this same camera system setup.

But even what's recorded to tape and the stock camera setup produces very nice results!

The camera is easily capable of producing very high end results. 24F is 24P for all intensive purposes. I would be more concerned with your lighting and composition.
 
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