Canon XHG1 footage...

T

TheMusician

Well-known member
I spent a lot of time at B&H recently and have narrowed my camera choices down to the HVX200 and the Canon XHA1/XHG1. I love the detail and low light capabilities of the canon A1, but love the color of the HVX200. The G1 can do 4:2:2 color out HD-SDI and I would love the opportunity to see some footage but, alas, I cannot find any! The closest I came was seeing Elton's A1 footage captured through composite, but that is taking a digital signal and converting it to analog and then back to digital again. I would absolutely love the chance to see the color out of the canon G1 through HD-SDI. Does anyone have any footage, or at least be able to offer some comments on what you have seen from the XHG1? Thanks.
 
I don't have a G1, but I do often capture the raw HD SDI 4:2:2 signal from the XL-H1, and have tested the differences between analog 4:2:2 capture and raw HD SDI, etc, and FIRST OFF, I need to say that the analog and SDI are virtually the same thing when converted to a capture codec such as CineForm, ProRes or even DVCPRO HD. If you use a good component cable, there really isn't any added noise in the analog output that can actually be perceived. I can also tell you that the visual differences between HDV and the raw output are quite subtle at first blush. Where you do see a big difference is the loads of latitude in post that the added color sampling of HD SDI affords. That isn't to say that the HDV has little CC leeway...quite the opposite, actually, but the SDI output really makes a difference when you need to push the image to a point that might test the limits of HDV. And of course, the extra sharpness and resolution of the G1/A1/H1 is a very nice bonus.

I think there's a fundamental difference in philosphy when it comes to color between the HVX and the Canon's. IMO, the HVX's saturated look is more of a result of aggressive DSP processing---much more so than the DVCPRO HD codec itself. You can really push the Canon image in-camera too, but it tends to not be so "poppy" right out of the gate. It'll never look the same as the HVX, nor will an HVX have that sharp Canon look either.
 
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I looked and researched for soo long before buying a Canon A1. The common misconception about the whole Panny look vs. everyone else is that you CAN'T get the Panasonic look in other cameras when really the reality is the overall picture comes out the way alot of people want right away. I prefer (and especially if you want the most choices later) shooting flat and doing all CC in post. HDV can be pushed much farther than people think, Marlon Torres and his films alone are an example of what can be done with HDV. The resolution in the G1/A1/H1 is amazing and it shows, HDV codec or not on the A1. HDSDI with the H1 and G1 makes it even better.

HVX is awesome though no doubt...if you want the 16mm look. From what ive seen, read, been told, etc. the HVX 1080 image isn't so great and further pushes the image towards that soft film look. Now if thats what your looking for then by all means spend the dough because the camera is amazing. LCD is terrible also. P2 is great if you have the computer hardware, money, etc. to work with it in an easy way. I still chose the A1 because I knew that if I wanted the crystal clear HD NEWS look I could get it (same with the G1 and HDSDI makes that even better), and if I wanted the nice soft film look or normal film or w/e I want, I have that perfectly sharp 1080 image to downgrade from there. Better to find the best resolution, largest frame size you can and degrade from there to the look you want. Think of this way....HDV and more resolution and sharpness, or DVCPRoHD with less resolution and its softer.

Either way I chose A1 for some main reasons:
1) Resolution
2) Beautiful 1080 image (sharp, detailed)
3) Customization is more flexible than any other camera in its class
4) 20x Zoom and overall DOF is amazing
5) HDV is better than people say it is, and for almost everyone, it works just fine

I hope I was of some help in your decision.

- Kyle
 
Thanks Elton and Kyle, that is just what I needed to hear. I like the HVX color and wondered if I captured 4:2:2 on the Canon if it would look similar. Even if it does not though, I have already read about the extensive color matrix manipulation that is possible. Also, since I am just now starting my production business, I want to start small. I figure that the Canon is probably the best bang-for-the-buck, and by the time I have developed the necessary skills for advanced production, a full raster 1080p camera capturing in 4:2:2 with variable frame rates will sell around the $5000 range(I hope). Thanks for the input.
 
its called color correction and you will be able to get the same results as the HVX. And I personally dont like P2 cards.
 
Go for the A1!

You won't regret it! It's the best of the cameras. I owned the HVX200 and fully tested it, good camera, however I owned the H1 the HD100 as well the mentioned HVX , and the A1 which I own too, is the best BANG for the buck with an amazing image that I have projected quite large and it's ahead of the pack.

Good Luck!

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }


TheMusician said:
I spent a lot of time at B&H recently and have narrowed my camera choices down to the HVX200 and the Canon XHA1/XHG1. I love the detail and low light capabilities of the canon A1, but love the color of the HVX200. The G1 can do 4:2:2 color out HD-SDI and I would love the opportunity to see some footage but, alas, I cannot find any! The closest I came was seeing Elton's A1 footage captured through composite, but that is taking a digital signal and converting it to analog and then back to digital again. I would absolutely love the chance to see the color out of the canon G1 through HD-SDI. Does anyone have any footage, or at least be able to offer some comments on what you have seen from the XHG1? Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the info Pappas. I always enjoy hearing from guys that have used many cameras in the field to give you their comparison experience. I think that they are all great cameras as you say, but you arely get to see any footage from these cameras on a 42inch screen in the stores, usually only what you can see on the tiny camera LCDs. I think that the Canon A1 is going to be the best fit for me with a Cineform Intermediate to help with color correction. By the way, I caught your first post over at Reduser and got a good laugh from your quote:

"Hell, squeeze a rock hard enough, im sure your get a billionth of a drop of water out of it."

Thanks for your input!
 
Elton said:
I don't have a G1, but I do often capture the raw HD SDI 4:2:2 signal from the XL-H1, and have tested the differences between analog 4:2:2 capture and raw HD SDI, etc, and FIRST OFF, I need to say that the analog and SDI are virtually the same thing when converted to a capture codec such as CineForm, ProRes or even DVCPRO HD. If you use a good component cable, there really isn't any added noise in the analog output that can actually be perceived. I can also tell you that the visual differences between HDV and the raw output are quite subtle at first blush. Where you do see a big difference is the loads of latitude in post that the added color sampling of HD SDI affords. That isn't to say that the HDV has little CC leeway...quite the opposite, actually, but the SDI output really makes a difference when you need to push the image to a point that might test the limits of HDV. And of course, the extra sharpness and resolution of the G1/A1/H1 is a very nice bonus.
Click to expand...

wow that sounds like a great test, are these images of a comparison between the a1 hdv and the a1 analog output posted someplace
 
OK, this may be a dumb question, however, how do you go about capturing the hd/sdi, 4:2:2 output from the jack pack on a XH-G1? I know the tape section is HDV with its long GOP which is highly compressed and a pain to edit. So, what is the method for capturing the Uncompressed HD/SDI signal? Does it involve an external recording device like HDCam recorders. Is there a light weight, portable solution?
 
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