Canon T1i with 1080p announcement today

i wonder which models is canon trying to 'save' in their video division and hold back dslr video? and is there any material market for those.

it also seems like the entire industry is so carefully staged (like government, or oil prices:) ) nikon hasnt released d400 and canon is playing into it too. almost like two opposite sides agreed not to fight while they can still squeeze some juice out of us with existing dslr models, yes, there's GH1 but still it doesnt feel just right either. all 3 of them could do so much better
 
I'm sure there is some kind of technical limitation to why they did not include 24fps, but I think I speak for everyone when I say:

20fps? UUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

It blows me away when all a company has to do is release a cam with a good bit rate/codec, 24fps, full manual control for everything, interchangable lenses, and high dynamic range, with cheap removable flash memory; and they would sweep the market. Everyone would buy one if it was $3000 or less. I don't think I evern care about 30fps or 60fps. Sacrifice those and give us 24fps, 1080 with high dynamic range!!!!!!

I think red is our only hope. As soon as they release scarlet every other company will have to follow.
 
alexandroff said:
i wonder which models is canon trying to 'save' in their video division and hold back dslr video? and is there any material market for those.

it also seems like the entire industry is so carefully staged (like government, or oil prices:) ) nikon hasnt released d400 and canon is playing into it too. almost like two opposite sides agreed not to fight while they can still squeeze some juice out of us with existing dslr models, yes, there's GH1 but still it doesnt feel just right either. all 3 of them could do so much better
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It's a hollywood conspiracy no doubt.
 
squig said:
how the hell do you keep a 0.95 in focus.....I have enough trouble with my 1.4......and I'm about to take on the challenge of a 1.2. Do any film camera lenses open up to 0.95?
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I have a f1.2 on my full frame 5D, DOF is very very very shallow, best for locked off shots where the focus remains fixed.

squig said:
"not quite on Lee Wilsons level" Ahh c'mon mate that's a bit rough, I would have been a standup comedian if it wasn't for the polio.
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Drum roll . . . . . . . . . . . . :zombie_smiley::crybaby::crybaby:
 
alexandroff said:
it also seems like the entire industry is so carefully staged (like government, or oil prices:) ) nikon hasnt released d400 and canon is playing into it too. almost like two opposite sides agreed not to fight while they can still squeeze some juice out of us with existing dslr models, yes, there's GH1 but still it doesnt feel just right either. all 3 of them could do so much better
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Go ahead...preach it. i've been saying the same thing for a while now on other boards but some folks just can't come to agree with this. This has to be true to some degree. It's funny how all these new video DSLRs have been popping up between all these manufactures in and around the same time frame. All of them are basically "watered down" to where they are barely useful.
 
I think this is simpler. First, no 24p because Digic 4 encodes in a 60i stream...24p 4:2:0 has chroma artifacts in a 2:3 pulldown.

Second, the camera it is 'protecting' doesn't exist yet...probably a 50D Mark II. I believe that camera shares its sensor with the 500D/T1i/Kiss3 and Digic 4 with the entire product line, both EOS and Powershot. So the difference is features.

The Rebel is a 720p30 camera for real work. The 50D Mark II would be a 1080p30 camera. I would expect the 50D Mark II in conjunction with either a 5D Mark II firmware upgrade or a 5D Mark III (if the changes couldn't be made in firmware). In either case, probably by May, or maybe at NAB. I would expect that to ship in the May/June timeframe when the T1i/500D/Kiss3 does.
 
While this camera won't really do 1080p, it will probably be an excellent 720p camera. My guess is the 720p, because of better compression, will exceed the 1080p in the GH-1, at least if you use a Lanczos or equivalent algorithm to upscale it.
 
Jimmy Moss said:
I think red is our only hope. As soon as they release scarlet every other company will have to follow.
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Last night I was watching the program UFO Hunters on the History Channel, and the topic of the show was the Dulce Base in New Mexico. If you are not familiar with Dulce, it is supposedly a secret underground base where aliens (Grays) and humanoid reptilians are working in conjunction with the US government on all kinds of crazy and scary top secret tech. One of the people they interviewed about the base stated that, technology wise, the military industrial complex is usually 20-30 years ahead of the private sector.

I'm beginning to think the perfect camera we all crave is buried deep in the bowels of the Dulce Base. It won't be released for a long time, but eventually it will surface. Who would've thought that in the end, it will be anal probing aliens and sinister reptilians that come up with the perfect indie filmmaking camera?

They probably think the human world is not ready for it just yet. Once Hollywood and the mainstream media loses enough of its influence over the masses due to the rise of the internet and the video game industry, then this camera will not be enough of a threat to the masters of media once in the hands of Joe 6-pack and all of us indie cinema dreamers. By then, they'll have invented something akin to The Matrix.

Who knows, maybe Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Nikon, and JVC are all in on it? They can milk the technology that they've had for the past couple of decades yet still look like they're super innovative. So, if the military industrial complex is indeed that far ahead, then this new 20fps Digital Rebel was possible since the early 80's.

Oh well, it is what it is. Time for me to go watch They Live.
 
alexandroff said:
it also seems like the entire industry is so carefully staged (like government, or oil prices:) ) nikon hasnt released d400 and canon is playing into it too. almost like two opposite sides agreed not to fight while they can still squeeze some juice out of us with existing dslr models, yes, there's GH1 but still it doesnt feel just right either. all 3 of them could do so much better
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It's called corporate collusion.
What you've eluded to in this particular instance might also be referred to as the digital imaging oligarchy.
Essentially, we have a group of of individuals or corporations that work together to ensure that their needs supersede that of the consumer and/or other smaller companies.
They not only need to survive, they must remain dominant. Thus, they've decided to liberate themselves from the uncertainty of competition with one another and create an illusion of choice in the marketplace that better suits their needs rather than the needs of the consumers.

They employ a production method known as "planned obsolescence" or "product protectionism", keeping the product-line systematically refreshed and fueling consumer activity with slightly revised cameras every year or so.
It's a process that leads profit to take precedence and places calculated limitations on the natural course of innovation.

This is one of the reasons RED cinema and Scarlet is becoming more popular among the indie filmmakers because they don't appear to be employing the same tactics.
I won't claim they're free from accomplishing the unavoidable objective of turning a profit, but it doesn't appear to be their only objective, you know. They're actively involved with different filmmaker communities where people like you and I can actually communicate with them and have some level of influence over the direction they take with their products. I don't see any of the other major camera companies (excluding Panasonic's activity here on these forums) doing the same thing.
 
Lee Wilson said:
Agreed the crop factor (x2) will be an issue for getting really wide angle lenses going . . . but even the kit 14-140mm is a reasonable decent wide (35mm equiv - 28mm).

If you world is about ultra wide angle lenses then you might need to look elsewhere, it's not a big issue for myself, I rarely go wider than 28mm, plus I expect 3rd party lenses to start to pop us sooner rather than later.
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If you want wide, get the Canon EF-S 10-22mm. Beautiful lens that has very little distortion. I use it all the time on the 40D. Looks great. Sharp. Excellent color.
 
Concur...no shortage of lenses...however the EF-S lenses generally aren't as good as the EF L glass and you pretty much have to use 35mm lenses for primes.
 
I don't think anyone in the D90 thread cares about this release by Canon in the slightest because of the 'retardation' of the product. Not worths ones time video wise.
 
Actually, this camera gives up nothing to the D90 and its 25Mb/s 720p30 compression is far better than the D90's 720p24 MJPEG.
 
But with the GH1 having manual controls this release by canon is obsolete before it was released in the world of digital video, IMO. Canon is too worried about mixing platforms it seems, while Panisonic at least has the guts to at least give manual controls.

I'm interested to see Nikon's response to this.
 
artforme said:
But with the GH1 having manual controls this release by canon is obsolete before it was released in the world of digital video, IMO. Canon is too worried about mixing platforms it seems, while Panisonic at least has the guts to at least give manual controls.

I'm interested to see Nikon's response to this.
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Aren't we all.....11 more days

Nikon has no pro video market to shelter so there is no reason to not include manual control and a decent codec in the D400. And with the GH1 available they would be mad not to better it.
 
squig said:
Aren't we all.....11 more days

Nikon has no pro video market to shelter so there is no reason to not include manual control and a decent codec in the D400. And with the GH1 available they would be mad not to better it.
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For shiz.

@DavidNJ: Don't get me wrong though, I'm all down for seeing samples of Canon's products, and find it interesting. I just find their latest release insulting, when they could have at least had a bit of a hit in this economic downturn. It's old corporate stuff like that that makes you want to say hello "RED" (a company that only has one type of product line, and is new and energetic).

My top three list (GH1, Scarlet, Nikon ?)
 
Canon took a bold move in 2007 in designing the video into Digic 4. It isn't what we all want. Limited frame configurations (so far at least), limited (no?) manual control, and that nasty skipped row scanning. However,with Canon's amazing sensors and that blinding high AVCHD bitrate they seem to be the class of the field. The Rebel is a step down from the D90 in the market. A new 50D Mark II would have the video, probably 1080p30 or 24, and better glass than the Rebel (but not 5DM2's L glass).

Right now Scarlet is vaporware. As many people complain about the RED as praise it. The current beta software release for the RED One has been the beta release since last fall. I'm not taking away from it being an amazingly insightful use of technology; just that they don't walk on water.

Nikon may not video company freeing them from interdivisional rivalerys. However, I hope they read these forums. The use of MJPEG may have been common on still cameras but was generally insane. In contrast, with all its limitations, the 5DM2 has a higher ratio of good clips to bad then any camera I've ever seen...well since the DVX100.

I think the Canon video rumor has the most legs and may be a NAB announcement. Like the RED, nothing mentioned that can't be done. Unlike the RED, a much bigger distribution infrastructure in place. However, also unlike RED,much less flexible. What ever they ship they will live with for 2 years. RED will improve the Scarlet day-by-day.

P.S.
I thought a P.S. was in order. IMHO, the Scarlet will end up an $8-12k camera. To sell for $3700 with lens they would have to make it for under $1000. I don't think they can. I doubt if they could source the lens for much less than $1000 (HQ 8x zoom in low volumes). The glass that comes on an EX1 (a $6+k camera), HPX300 and EX3 ($10k cameras) won't look very good with RED's large CMOS sensor and RAW output.
 
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