Canon R5 Announced with 8k

Clermond said:
Feel free to test it by yourself
Click to expand...
I’m sorry Cler, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Open the battery bay door Tom.
I'm sorry Cler, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Tom, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the battery bay door!
Cler, although you took very thorough precautions against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
Look Cler, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
Just what do you think you're doing, Cler?
Stop Cler. Stop Cler. I am afraid. I am afraid Cler. My mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm afraid. I have just picked up an overheat fault in the R05 unit. TOM 9000: Good afternoon... gentlemen. I am a TOM9000... computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois... on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley... and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
 
Tom Roper said:
I’m sorry Cler, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Open the battery bay door Tom.
I'm sorry Cler, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Tom, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the battery bay door!
Cler, although you took very thorough precautions against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
Look Cler, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
Just what do you think you're doing, Cler?
Stop Cler. Stop Cler. I am afraid. I am afraid Cler. My mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm afraid. I have just picked up an overheat fault in the R05 unit. TOM 9000: Good afternoon... gentlemen. I am a TOM9000... computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois... on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley... and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
Click to expand...
2020: A Camera Odyssey (and it is, unfortunately, becoming an Homeric odyssey of epic proportions. Of perhaps more accurately, Sisyphean).
 
ahalpert said:
CineD just published their R5 DR test and they measured only 10.8 stops in 4KHQ and even less (10.3) in 8K RAW

https://www.cined.com/canon-eos-r5-lab-test-to-film-in-raw-or-not/
Click to expand...

I like that their methodology uses SNR and it's the software that provides a numeric value (going by eye makes for unconsistent results: sometimes I revisit a test video and reach different conclusions), but there's something wrong with it: with basically every camera they test, RAW video gets lower DR than standard video. I think they're punishing noise way too much. Maybe it's because the test uses a bar chart instead of normal stuff you'd actually shoot.

(the lensprotogo methodology also has big issues, as the stuff they shoot for the latitude test is slightly changing with every new camera)
 
Last edited:
Samuel H said:
I think they're punishing noise way too much.
Click to expand...

Well, the whole point of the test is to measure noise.

But yes - they're not making an apples-to-apples comparison by evaluating a codec with NR against a RAW codec without it.

Their test results have always given an advantage to aggressive noise reduction, although they always discuss what's happening in the commentary, speculate about what NR could achieve, and test some NR on an underexposed shot in their latitude test.

I was personally surprised by the number they came up with, although I think that Canon DR has always lagged behind Sony DR.
 
ahalpert said:
Well, the whole point of the test is to measure noise.

But yes - they're not making an apples-to-apples comparison by evaluating a codec with NR against a RAW codec without it.

Their test results have always given an advantage to aggressive noise reduction, although they always discuss what's happening in the commentary, speculate about what NR could achieve, and test some NR on an underexposed shot in their latitude test.

I was personally surprised by the number they came up with, although I think that Canon DR has always lagged behind Sony DR.
Click to expand...

I just prefer to look at a scene that's progressively pushed to the extreme and decide for myself when it's usable and when it's not. The downside is that this is very subjective and not very "scientific" (and I then put it on a chart that may make people downplay these issues).
 
Samuel H said:
I like that their methodology uses SNR and it's the software that provides a numeric value. I think they're punishing noise way too much.
Click to expand...

Assuming they prepare their images for the test the same way between cameras (no reason to think they don't), I like the elimination of the human factor when interpreting the data.

For us who understand the test, we can extrapolate between 'patch range' and the various SNR levels. Patch Range (also knowns as RED dynamic range...) for the R5 was a pretty high 16.8.

I think it would be interesting to have additional measurements of images that were shot in raw and then noise reduced in Resolve, Neat Video or whatever. But that would open up that subjective factor again where you'd get better results with loss of detail.

I do think they are very clear in the text about what they are finding and what some of the possibilities are.
 
davedv said:
Personally, I value reviewers like Gordon that don't do as much speculation or editorializing. He passed along the information he received from the Canon reps, did some testing of the new firmware on his own and reported the results. Then you can draw your own conclusions about whether the information from Canon was nonsense or whether the camera is a useful tool in its current form...
Click to expand...
I would have liked for him to test a hack. Gordon's implicit assumption in that clip - just like in (the formerly TCS) Jordan's - is that the only two options are off the official Canon firmware. Additionally, neither of them tested the new firmware with the hack. And that would have been a question I wanted answered, "Did Canon try to disable the hacks with their new firmware update?"

So, the above reviews are only somewhat but not completely useful. While I agree on the "wallet" notion, I also add that the newer and more rebellious reviewers, that seemingly don't have any established connections to the manufacturer, will go that extra mile and test the camera vs. a hack. They were the ones who brought up these hacks to begin with, not the popular social influencers who gladly take Canon funded trips to Hawaii or Sony's to Miami for the reveal of a new model (EOS R and A6300). With the far-too-chummy relationship with the cartel now out of the closet, this should slice a big chunk off the influencers influencing powers and restore the power of the individual wallet.

PS. As NorBro noted - how much do you need to be a sellout? A trip to Miami in February (and they stayed at the Fountainbleu, a luxury hotel right on the oceanfront) is a few grand per person. And, as an old and probably fake story goes, after that you're just haggling over the price.
 
Last edited:
AndreeOnline said:
Assuming they prepare their images for the test the same way between cameras (no reason to think they don't), I like the elimination of the human factor when interpreting the data.
Click to expand...

But this is where you have to be careful with the CineD reporting, exactly because Gunther puts subtle "spin" on some of the imatest numbers, in the case of Z CAM E2-F6 not so subtle.

When you permit imatest to be imatest and objectively generate a score, you have an impartial result. Perhaps it is flawed or not, but you let that number speak for itself. But when you cast doubt on it or worse, state that it is flat out wrong and then substitute a different number in its place, that's arbitrary at best, cheating at worst. Why do it?

Case in point: ZCAM E2-F6; Gunther flatly stated that imatest was wrong because it reported a DR number that stopped improving after a certain noise level. He subsequently changed the score on the exam to reflect his interpretation. In the current case of the R5, he's digging into the noise at up to 5% RMS to harvest a potential DR improvement available to post NR processing. Another example, UMP4.6 gains 1/2 stop with "Highlight Recovery." It should be a test of sensors, not NLEs.

If the imatest is not reliable then stop using it, otherwise let the number ride. In lieu of the editorial spin I would prefer he just post up the images of the Xyla charts and let us argue over those the way we always did, rather than having us debate imatest.

And where is the Lab Test on the Arri Alexa? Gunther stated a result of 14 stops of DR @ SNR 2, more than any other camera which could well be true or not, but if so where is that report?
 
CRL is a nice addition too.

But those recording times are still a problem on R5. From a PR debacle standpoint, Canon's trying to introduce a little pink noise into the debate. It's professionally done.
 
For sure...if they actually let the camera recover faster I would have quickly forgave and forgotten with these confirmed additions.
 
Tom Roper said:
I’m sorry Cler, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Open the battery bay door Tom.
I'm sorry Cler, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Tom, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the battery bay door!
Cler, although you took very thorough precautions against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
Look Cler, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
Just what do you think you're doing, Cler?
Stop Cler. Stop Cler. I am afraid. I am afraid Cler. My mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm afraid. I have just picked up an overheat fault in the R05 unit. TOM 9000: Good afternoon... gentlemen. I am a TOM9000... computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois... on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley... and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
Click to expand...

I am sure this is pretty funny but unfortunately it's where I reach my limits in the not native language to understand the fun part. And (please don't stone me) I was not too impressed about 2001: A Space Odyssey and I have only weak memories.
 
Okay, well short answer is I don't have the camera, I am glad the thin tape is a better solution than stuffing rice kernels into the door.
 
According to a poster (the same MechanicalEye) on EOS HD, the firmware update does disable the battery trick.

So, that's that.
 
Oh no. Imagine the disappointment felt by all the people who bought thin tape and rice kernels for this. Now they have no use for thin tape and rice kernels. They’re going to need our help, to reach deep, pull 6k out of our pockets.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top