Canon R5 Announced with 8k

NorBro said:
Don't you find 240fps in every non-high speed camera besides a RED terrible?
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I’ve usually found RED pretty average at those frame rates too. RED tend to use an aggressive OLPF and they’re optimised for the full sensor.

When you window down, the resolution always feels even less than the numbers would imply.

F55 did a decent 240 from memory.

JB
 
It makes me think/realize that Canon was not really sandbagging in the past about video features, they just did not have the technical ability to deliver the goods in such a small body. To offer a new mirrorless that is groundbreaking but have so so video specs would not look good, so they had to go for it. This thesis will be proven or disproven with the R6 heat performance. If the R6 needs to be used in pixel bin mode to keep the heat down on a 20MPX sensor then there are some issues imho with FF and hybrid video expectations. (outside of Panasonic, winners of the engineering prize!) The new Sony rumors do not mention 8k even though the MPX count will probably be up there.

On a another note, I was watching a video about the R5 and the topic was focusing on the 20fps electronic shutter mode. They showed a Canon produced little clip with a female golfer in a sand trap and the camera flying out 20 fps a second. The clip was purposely shot but there was quite a bit of wobble in the frame. So that mode looks to be pretty impacted with rolling shutter as expected. How usable that mode will be is to be determined.
 
John Brawley said:
I’ve usually found RED pretty average at those frame rates too. RED tend to use an aggressive OLPF and they’re optimised for the full sensor.

When you window down, the resolution always feels even less than the numbers would imply.

F55 did a decent 240 from memory.

JB
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You can switch OLPFs if it matters.

I think slow-motion needs more resolution than 1080p.
 
I'm a little bit surprised that people thought these cameras wouldn't overheat. They don't have active cooling and the heat sinks are small. The C500MKII has a can't go more than 10minutes in its oversampled mode without turning on the fan. And when the fan turns on, it hits you with a nice blast of very hot air.
 
Bassman2003 said:
It makes me think/realize that Canon was not really sandbagging in the past about video features, they just did not have the technical ability to deliver the goods in such a small body. To offer a new mirrorless that is groundbreaking but have so so video specs would not look good, so they had to go for it. This thesis will be proven or disproven with the R6 heat performance. If the R6 needs to be used in pixel bin mode to keep the heat down on a 20MPX sensor then there are some issues imho with FF and hybrid video expectations. (outside of Panasonic, winners of the engineering prize!) The new Sony rumors do not mention 8k even though the MPX count will probably be up there.

On a another note, I was watching a video about the R5 and the topic was focusing on the 20fps electronic shutter mode. They showed a Canon produced little clip with a female golfer in a sand trap and the camera flying out 20 fps a second. The clip was purposely shot but there was quite a bit of wobble in the frame. So that mode looks to be pretty impacted with rolling shutter as expected. How usable that mode will be is to be determined.
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I think everyone is just glossing over this. Even Arri has talked about heat/thermal management and limitations in the miniLF, which is WAY bigger than an R5 and has active cooling(fans). What do people realistically think is possible moving that much data around in such a small container with the components so close together with no fans and a sealed body? Again, if this was a dedicated video camera, it would be one thing if it could only shoot 20-25 minutes before shutting down, because of heat build-up, but it’s not. Is it ideal, no. But at least you know this fully going in before you make your purchase. No one is making anyone buy one or hiding the fact for you to only discover after it’s too late.
 
Seems like some wonky thining 8k raw is going to be for some glossy interior hotel shoots or something, (like 10s shots) its not for a 45min sit down.
 
Bassman2003 said:
The new Sony rumors do not mention 8k even though the MPX count will probably be up there.
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The latest sony rumors say new 12MP sensor. I dont know if that's a quad Bayer 12MP sensor or just straight 12MP. I don't really care. Good enough for me.

Unless I need to crop in - which is rare - I'm not personally a "that 4K looks softer than this 4K" guy.
 
At the end of the day, there are barely a handful of full-frame 10-bit 4:2:2 4K/24p mirrorless cameras. And there are ZERO with DPAF and IBIS (Sony has that in 8-bit...for now).

So it's still something. The camera is still on par (with its limitations) or better (with its particular advantages) with/than almost everything else out there because no one else has 8K or full-frame 4K/60p (S1R, kind of) for this price so it's not like they are competing there anyway.

A first from Canon, either way. Everything else is experimental; just for fun if you can use it.
 
NorBro said:
At the end of the day, there are barely a handful of full-frame 10-bit 4:2:2 4K/24p mirrorless cameras. And there are ZERO with DPAF and IBIS
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Strong argument for forgetting FF and going Fuji. I think the A7SIII will do the job, though
 
If you sold your great S1 to have AF, you'd officially be insane to go Fujifilm. Have to get it out of your mind that it's on Canon's or Sony's level.

Maybe helpful if you have time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uDrBk8NxPc&t=180s

He sums it up perfectly around 7:45.

"The same lens would sometimes work well. And sometimes not work well. And there was no real reason for it."

And this is really the Fuji AF system in a nutshell.
 
NorBro said:
You can switch OLPFs if it matters.

I think slow-motion needs more resolution than 1080p.
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On the Sony ? Yes. And on the RED too, but on RED they’re never optimised for windowed resolution....Which makes sense....I just find the pixel resolution always feels like it’s optimistic against the pictures coming out of the sensor. The smaller the window, the worse it is. 2K on a RED looks like 720 to me....

JB
 
John Brawley said:
On the Sony ? Yes. And on the RED too, but on RED they’re never optimised for windowed resolution....I find the pixel resolution always feels like it’s optimistic against the pictures coming out of the sensor. The smaller the window, the worse it is. 2K on a RED looks like 720 to me....

JB
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I think it's passable on the newer RED cameras. 240-300fps is a lot to ask for. (4K/120p looks great of course.)

This is 300fps. It's not spectacular and still has that lower-quality, downgraded look but it's better than what I see on other cameras shooting internally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnDYEDEYihY

If I had to choose, a softer IQ would be better than any kind of compression noise or color noise that you usually see.
 
The fact-of-the-matter is that technology is just not there yet to provide us high-resolution, high-quality HFR 240fps+ cameras for affordable prices, which is why the few proprietary cameras that exist cost $100K-$200K.

Coincidentally, it was always one of the reasons RED cameras were more expensive...high-resolution higher-framerates (not just high-resolution).

You were paying for that specification like you'd pay for more GHz or memory in a computer.

World has changed a lot though.
 
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