Canon R5 Announced with 8k

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

Huh? :huh:

Rumack: You'd better tell the Captain we've got to land as soon as we can. This woman has to be gotten to a hospital.
Elaine Dickinson: A hospital? What is it?
Rumack: It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

 

[NorBro]

lol, that's funny.

 

[Tamerlin]

Also, liking the mirrorless shape, or something similar to it, doesn't mean that Komodo or Zcam is bad. They are both good. The only thing is, there is no video centric mirrorless design yet. they keep getting closer, but not there yet. They wouldn't be trying to get closer if it weren't a recognized profitable endeavor.

They're hybrids... they'll never be optimal designs. They're trying to be photography cameras with good video specs, rather than good cinema cameras. A camera designed around production won't be a great camera for stills, by the same token. It's not an easy balance to achieve.

The BM pockets are way too wide, and for pro use, I don't think they are good designs. They seem well made for people who prefer touch screens to dials and structured indexed menu systems. But the BM's are very wide, and don't have an EVF, so they create about as many issues as they solved. I can understand their appeal to some, but do not see them being more than a hobbyist camera by design.

I have a feeling that part of the emphasis on touch screens is related to BMD's effort to minimize the manufacturing cost for the Pocket line. It probably simplifies the chassis to have fewer physical controls.

I definitely prefer to have physical controls for settings that operators need to change regularly, like iris, shutter angle, frame rate, and that sort of thing. Touch screens are nice for setting the meta data like project name and so on, but those are constant throughout the day most of the time.

 

[Guest]

They're hybrids... they'll never be optimal designs. They're trying to be photography cameras with good video specs, rather than good cinema cameras. A camera designed around production won't be a great camera for stills, by the same token. It's not an easy balance to achieve.

No one disagrees with that. What is being proposed is that a video camera be built with some of the ergonomics generally closer associated with dslr.



I have a feeling that part of the emphasis on touch screens is related to BMD's effort to minimize the manufacturing cost for the Pocket line. It probably simplifies the chassis to have fewer physical controls.

I definitely prefer to have physical controls for settings that operators need to change regularly, like iris, shutter angle, frame rate, and that sort of thing. Touch screens are nice for setting the meta data like project name and so on, but those are constant throughout the day most of the time.

They may also assume that gimbal users prefer touch screen.

Their "gui" does have the softest learning curve of any raw video camera.

 

[Tamerlin]

Their "gui" does have the softest learning curve of any raw video camera.

A wireless GUI is better than a touch screen for gimbal use... taking advantage of the built-in BlueTooth connection, for example.

One other upside to a GUI is that it's possible to update the GUI with a firmware update.

 

[NorBro]

Button cost doesn't matter too much...the original pocket was $500 at one point and had no touchscreen.

Supposedly, they used the same screen from the 5" Video Assist for the Pocket 4K/6K, so the framework/technology was mostly just recycled.

By far the best camera GUI on the planet.

 

[Tamerlin]

Button cost doesn't matter too much...the original pocket was $500 at one point and had no touchscreen.

Supposedly, they used the same screen from the 5" Video Assist for the Pocket 4K/6K, so the framework/technology was mostly just recycled.

By far the best camera GUI on the planet.

The buttons themselves might not cost much, but that's not the only factor in cost.

 

[NorBro]

For sure, but I meant more in the grand scheme of design.

Cameras need buttons.

They are considered untouchable essentials in the budget vs. luxury features and connections.

 

[Guest]

A wireless GUI is better than a touch screen for gimbal use... taking advantage of the built-in BlueTooth connection, for example.

One other upside to a GUI is that it's possible to update the GUI with a firmware update.

The downside is everything else. haha

 

[DLD]

This is why I like modularity - so you have a basic unit that can be reconfigured to different designs for different shooting styles. The YAGH was a nice step in that direction. Maybe it would be cool to have an extension like that to come off the left side of camera and bring operator controls there and reroute the HDMI out the rear diagonal...

It's much easier to eliminate the controls - by either making them wired or wireless or via a touch screen - that to cramp more buttons into a limited space. of course, YAGH makes more space available but the reason it didn't take off was that, as JB put it, it was large and overpriced. But a smaller YAGH on a camera with very few physical buttons ... master the possibilities.

PS. As far as space limitations go, there's no reason that, with a modern tech, the screen itself can't be made foldable (which doesn't mean bendable ... it can be either/or).

 

[Guest]

It's much easier to eliminate the controls - by either making them wired or wireless or via a touch screen - that to cramp more buttons into a limited space. of course, YAGH makes more space available but the reason it didn't take off was that, as JB put it, it was large and overpriced. But a smaller YAGH on a camera with very few physical buttons ... master the possibilities.

PS. As far as space limitations go, there's no reason that, with a modern tech, the screen itself can't be made foldable (which doesn't mean bendable ... it can be either/or).

Most well designed cameras have the main controls in a relatively tight cluster. Benefits of the GUI approach are also part of the problem. Buttons and knobs work for gloved users. Bluetooth remote menus are great too. I suppose there is no reason why a gui couldn't be displayed on a phone or something as well. Most users have shown a preference for some level go touch screen control. But the need for buttons and dials hasn't gone away entirely, not even in the enthusiast realm. Even cellphones still have a few buttons.

 

[DLD]

An external Bluetooth display that can be operated with two thumbs would probably be faster than any physical button layout.

Side note - Tony and Chelsea Northrup were "comparing" Galaxy U20 smartphone and Canon EOS RP. They came up to a flock of birds and Chelsea began snapping right away while Tony was struggling with the touch screen. RP was declared the "winner" in that style of shooting. But Tony's unfamiliarity with the Galaxy GUI was what doomed him. Someone with a few hours of the particular system use would probably match Chelsea.

 

[ahalpert]

Not saying these exact control types are ideal, but having a few critical exposure controls on the operator side has benefits for shoulder and gimbal users.

Agreed. The newer models of the Zhiyun Crane can control camera exposure settings via a cable to camera and buttons on the gimbal. I wish the Ronin-s did that! I've never used it and I'm not sure how well it works or how many cameras are compatible.

At a bare minimum, I would love a cabled or wireless remote control that can control exposure. It looks like the only remotes for my Lumix S1 are shutter release and intervalometers. I think I can control the camera with my phone, but it would be nice to have a bespoke solution that doesn't need to reconnect.

Also, when I had a Scarlet, the Redmote would intermittently disconnect. That sucked. Cables are annoying but solid.

 

[ahalpert]

Saying that the ergonomic shape was a big hit with filmmakers is right up there with saying that the "Blair Witch Project" succeeded because of the crappy camera work.

It was my understanding that the shaky cam in Blair Witch was an integral part of its realism. Sure, they would have done it differently with a bigger budget - but would that have been wise? I saw clips from the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre and the sequel on the ASC Instagram several months ago and I thought the original had a lot more soul and honest vibe. The sequel looked way more refined but if anything I thought that detracted from the look and the realism. Of course, now I'm just getting distracted by your analogy...

But I guess, to continue the analogy, that there IS an advantage for light-footprint and guerilla shooting by using a camera that doesn't look like a video camera. It would be NICE to make it more functional for those purposes, though if you're just barehanding it I think it's probably fine the way it is.

 

[Guest]

Agreed. The newer models of the Zhiyun Crane can control camera exposure settings via a cable to camera and buttons on the gimbal. I wish the Ronin-s did that! I've never used it and I'm not sure how well it works or how many cameras are compatible.

At a bare minimum, I would love a cabled or wireless remote control that can control exposure. It looks like the only remotes for my Lumix S1 are shutter release and intervalometers. I think I can control the camera with my phone, but it would be nice to have a bespoke solution that doesn't need to reconnect.

Also, when I had a Scarlet, the Redmote would intermittently disconnect. That sucked. Cables are annoying but solid.

It is pretty amazing what those things are capable of, how quickly they spit them out, and how cheap they are.

 

[ahalpert]

It is pretty amazing what those things are capable of, how quickly they spit them out, and how cheap they are.

I had a Crane v2 before I had a Ronin-S. I wanted to upgrade my gimbal for heavier payload and built-in focus motor control. Both brands offer that now and their stabilization quality is similar, but the Ronin is way more marketable to clients in my experience. The Ronin may also be more customizable, not sure.

 

[Guest]

I was working remotely with the DJI via cellphone. Wireless control of the pan tilt, and wirless video feed to the phone. Was pretty fun. Still rough, but will only get better.

 

[Tamerlin]

It was my understanding that the shaky cam in Blair Witch was an integral part of its realism. Sure, they would have done it differently with a bigger budget - but would that have been wise?

Giving a sizeable chunk of your target audience motion sickness doesn't seem like a smart goal, so i'd say yes -- but "differently" doesn't mean "not handheld" necessarily. They could have done that with better handheld camera work, rather than the excessively shaky cam, IMO.

Either way though, the shakycam wasn't the secret for the film's success any more than using an Alexa won Roger Deakins an Academy.

But I guess, to continue the analogy, that there IS an advantage for light-footprint and guerilla shooting by using a camera that doesn't look like a video camera. It would be NICE to make it more functional for those purposes, though if you're just barehanding it I think it's probably fine the way it is.

I'd be willing to bet that you'd get the same level of stealth if you used a small box style camera like a ZCam with one of the less obtrusive handheld rigs out there. Or just put some weight on it so that it has SOME inertia... though now that gimbals are so common, you could probably use one of those and not be noticed as long as it doesn't have an obvious and recognizable logo on it.

 

[ahalpert]

I was working remotely with the DJI via cellphone. Wireless control of the pan tilt, and wirless video feed to the phone. Was pretty fun. Still rough, but will only get better.

Which DJI? How was the video sent? Can you monitor video and control the gimbal in the same interface? Technically, I could do both from my phone (not sure about live monitoring video), but they would open in 2 different apps. I could rig 2 iPad minis to my gimbal... I'm not sure how good the results are operating gimbal from phone. If you need remote access, then anything is better than nothing. Can you operate by tilting your phone and using the accelerometer in the phone and does that work well?