ahalpert
Major Contributor
I'd love to see the results of a latitude test. I'm not that impressed with the color of the highlights in the high contrast shots
Canon R5 Announced with 8k
- Thread starter Ken1212
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I'd love to see the results of a latitude test. I'm not that impressed with the color of the highlights in the high contrast shots
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Head tracking - cool. Except when you want it to rack to the other person's face.
EDIT: this was meant earnestly, not sarcastically. It is cool that it tracks heads. I assume you can tell it if you want to do that or switch to another face in frame. What would really be great is being able to change that behavior mid-shot.
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
Sometimes you'll wanna keep focus on the same person. Sometimes you'll wanna switch. Sometimes you can't tap the screen or don't want to. I'm not saying they're not doing amazing things with AF or that I won't necessarily buy one.
Now - can a fella monitor by smartphone during recording and tap to focus there? That would really spin my wheels
Now - can a fella monitor by smartphone during recording and tap to focus there? That would really spin my wheels
NorBro
Major Contributor
Yes, you can with 'Canon Camera Connect', and they will most likely improve it over time for better video control.
Based on what you've shared here, you appear to have never used a DPAF camera yet any concerns you've had about AF in the last 4 months have been about the system being unable to read your mind.
Based on what you've shared here, you appear to have never used a DPAF camera yet any concerns you've had about AF in the last 4 months have been about the system being unable to read your mind.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
That is 100% correct. Well, I've shot with other folks' sony cameras in C-AF at their preferred settings.
And yes - my human focus pulling hands have the advantage of being connected to my brain. There is no use in pulling accurate focus on the wrong thing or in limiting the shot you want to take to work around the constraints of the AF system. I'd rather chance it with my skills. I'm a good focus puller.
For AF to be useful at all, it has to pass a certain level of utility in speed, accuracy, behavior and options.
But my principle concern right now is knowing everything I can about Canon vs Sony AF because that will be the next camera decision I make. And once I start down either brand path, it will become increasingly expensive to switch to the other
And yes - my human focus pulling hands have the advantage of being connected to my brain. There is no use in pulling accurate focus on the wrong thing or in limiting the shot you want to take to work around the constraints of the AF system. I'd rather chance it with my skills. I'm a good focus puller.
For AF to be useful at all, it has to pass a certain level of utility in speed, accuracy, behavior and options.
But my principle concern right now is knowing everything I can about Canon vs Sony AF because that will be the next camera decision I make. And once I start down either brand path, it will become increasingly expensive to switch to the other
ahalpert
Major Contributor
This is what I was afraid of. You may not be able to remote shoot video with the wifi app. Who knows - even if you can, you may not be able to select focus during shooting. My experience with different brands' camera wifi apps is that different ones function differently and there are usually unexpected limitations.
"Remote shoot video
Whenever the Wi-Fi function on your Canon 6D is enabled, you cannot simultaneously activate video recording, so unfortunately remote video shooting cannot be achieved."
"Remote shoot video
Whenever the Wi-Fi function on your Canon 6D is enabled, you cannot simultaneously activate video recording, so unfortunately remote video shooting cannot be achieved."
NorBro
Major Contributor
Maybe you personally don't require DPAF as much as you may think you do except for the occasional shot here and there you've talked about where it's too difficult to pull focus with your hand.
Because for the most part, it sounds like you haven't been challenged enough to understand that your human skills are extremely inferior for certain types of focus pulling.
If you were ever doing any kind of fast-paced coverage with a full-frame sensor and filming at f/1.4, you would never, ever be able to accurately and consistently pull focus with endless movement from the subjects.
Your footage would look like what the entire world's did in 2010 with the 5D Mark II.
Even all Hollywood productions understand f/4-f/5.6 on a S35 sensor is a pretty safe window for the plane, or at least quickly corrected with a slight nudge on the wheel in the right direction.
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With a full-frame chip and ultra speed, you are stepping into a territory in which you will manually fail 99% of the time unless you and the subject are both stationary.
If you're shooting at f/4, f/8 with little movement, it's all good.
Because for the most part, it sounds like you haven't been challenged enough to understand that your human skills are extremely inferior for certain types of focus pulling.
If you were ever doing any kind of fast-paced coverage with a full-frame sensor and filming at f/1.4, you would never, ever be able to accurately and consistently pull focus with endless movement from the subjects.
Your footage would look like what the entire world's did in 2010 with the 5D Mark II.
Even all Hollywood productions understand f/4-f/5.6 on a S35 sensor is a pretty safe window for the plane, or at least quickly corrected with a slight nudge on the wheel in the right direction.
___
With a full-frame chip and ultra speed, you are stepping into a territory in which you will manually fail 99% of the time unless you and the subject are both stationary.
If you're shooting at f/4, f/8 with little movement, it's all good.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Full-frame f/1.4 is usually a questionable aesthetic choice. But when I go there for light or effect, it is a challenge. I buzz a lot on rapid distance changes. Very hit and miss, mostly miss unless the distance is constant.
F/4 I can handle pretty easily except approaching an object quickly or tracking along with someone at close range with slightly shifting distance.
Having good AF could also open up new types of shots I don't even attempt
But pulling manually has 2 advantages that I am loathe to give up. One is that you always know what you want to focus on and when and how fast you want to change. And you can rack in and out of focus etc. 2 is you have to monitor closely, so at least you can tell when you're missing focus. My nightmare is coming home and realizing "the camera missed" an important shot that I thought I had.
F/4 I can handle pretty easily except approaching an object quickly or tracking along with someone at close range with slightly shifting distance.
Having good AF could also open up new types of shots I don't even attempt
But pulling manually has 2 advantages that I am loathe to give up. One is that you always know what you want to focus on and when and how fast you want to change. And you can rack in and out of focus etc. 2 is you have to monitor closely, so at least you can tell when you're missing focus. My nightmare is coming home and realizing "the camera missed" an important shot that I thought I had.
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i sometimes use an iPad for my 1DXmkII to assign AF location. it works but there is a lag of at least 1 second or longer most of the time for it to react. also if you want to monitor for sharpness using a mobile device it isn't the best quality...more like standard def but if your trusting the AF then not seeing a pristine image is not a big deal. maybe on the newer 1DXmkIII and the new r5 touching AF on a mobile device is better? im curious if it is myself.
on another note when pairing the 1DXmkII with a mobile device prepare to be frustrated at how tedious it is when your rushed. each time you do it you have to type in an 8 digit number plus there are about 5-6 click thrus plus the code to get it to connect. beware if your mobile device goes to sleep...? oops...you have to start the whole process again. i do my best to avoid using my iPad. only when on a crane or a very slow and subtle dolly move where i dont want to chance touching the back of the camera and of course...i am on set with another camera guy which isn't always the case.
david
i am 100% with NorBro about AF vs manual focusing. yes there are absolutley times when AF either doesn't work or it doesn't match the desired vibe you might be looking for but i guanantee much of the time it will literally kick the SH$T out of manual focus. i agree if your shooting @ 5.6 or more focus is easier to do but at a fast aperture like and 85mm 1.8 - 1.4...a static person sitting in a chair cropped into chest on up...2 inches forward or backward will go out and like NorBro's comment of 2010 / 5DmkII which is so true. that person leaning forward 1-2 inches will stay in perfect focus with DPAF...plus...if you were manual focusing you could only be "re-active to the movements which means you will be back in 2010 again and best to just stop down to not have to deal with it.
DPAF on a gimbal is a treat too! otherwise you have to measure your distance and keep that distance to a moving subject.
also...don't always think of it as "face detection" only. forget FD for a second and just place the focus square on and object and track that object. it works just as good and you dont have to worry about the face turning or losing focus.
the AF on my A7III is actually very good as well. in some situations it actually excels over the canon in that you can control the speed and sensitivity more than on my 1DXmkII but in the most general sense i still really like canon's DPAF.
david
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Thanks again David
I agree for keeping an interview subject in focus it's no contest. AF all the way. And there, obviously, keep the head if it turns. But that's a literal no-brainer situation regarding WHERE to focus.
I have a focus motor on my Ronin-S, so adjusting the focus is totally doable. It just requires effort and skill that is sometimes beyond my capabilities.
When it will track an object - is that true if that object moves across your frame? I believe so based on what I've seen. what about if they leave frame and return? And how easily is the camera thrown off the object if something else passes in front of it?
From what I can tell, these issues are the marginal differences in AF performance from one brand or generation to the next.
Do you have an opinion on Sony vs Canon AF quality? I think the A7SIII may have some better recording options for me. But if Canon's AF triumphs then that may be the deciding factor
i will guess that DPAF on cameras newer than my 1DXmkII "may" be better in the features they offer but i dont know personally.
on my 1DXmkII only certain lenses will allow for speed control and none of mine do. its actually the cheaper lenses that offer a bit of flexibility if i recall. its been so long since ive thought about it. with my body there is only...((( 1 ))) speed! yep thats it. you might think...well thats not going to work? well for me i am usually not bothered by it but if your racking focus between to people in a scene then of course the speed that canon offers may not work in that situation.
i will say that the 1 speed canon offers is very satisfying for most things. much like the simplicity of an LA-2A audio compressor...meaning how could a compressor with no "attack" and "release" or lack of "ratio" option work? well it works so well that you never think about the other settings when using it on vocals in a mix. (i digress).
david
this is what i had to buy to use my 1DXmkII with my iPad
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...t_e8a_wireless_file_transmitter.html/overview
i feel in a general sense canon's DPAF is simple and tasteful like the classic (LA-2A)...very musical! still im pretty blown away by my A7III as to it AF capabilities as well. i expect and hope the A7sIII is improved though and expect it to be. id love to see the so called "head detect" on the A7sIII as well.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Yes I think the newer bods have built-in wifi.
Speaking of Sony - it was with sony wifi app (which is also a bother to connect) that I had firsthand experience with limited shooting controls. I can't remember what the touch focus behavior was. I think there was limited or no exposure control.
When the A7SIII arrives, there will be many comparisons to be made.
Interesting what you say about speed control on various lenses. Another factor to take into account. Is it USM vs STM that might account for the difference? Or simply year of release?
sorry my last reply got muddled into your questions. hope this is cleaner
you said..."I have a focus motor..."
agreed. great feature on the Ronin-S as i have one too. still if your shooting with a 50mm 1.4 and in tight i would still trust DPAF to keep the face in rather that chasing focus plus you have to be able to see a monitor clear enough to judge focus. many times im just focusing on "framing" and not "tripping" when on uneven terrain that im glad i leave the focus to the camera. the AF is not your brain...but if you use your brain to understand how it will work then its and incredibly powerful option IMO
you said..."When it will track an object..."
lets say if you shooting someone and you background is OOF...if you subject leaves the frame the camera will then go to focus on the background and when they come back into the frame it will typically focus back on them very quickly. still to keep the focus from racking to the background you would have to maybe come up with a way to trick the camera into not doing that. i dont know how to do that or never needed to but there is probably a way using custom buttons to control it. maybe someone here can answer that.
you said..."From what i can tell..."
my A7III gives me more options on how quick it will jump to a subject crossing over my shot...how fast it will rack from one subject to another when i re-asign by tapping on the LCD.
you said..."Do you have an opinion on Sony vs Canon AF quality?"...
i feel in a general sense canon's DPAF is simple and tasteful like the classic (LA-2A)...very musical! still im pretty blown away by my A7III as to it AF capabilities as well. i expect and hope the A7sIII is improved though and expect it to be. id love to see the so called "head detect" on the A7sIII as well. both companies are very usable and satisfying to me.
david
you should try to get your hands on any canon DSLR that has DPAF to just "try" and you will know in 60 seconds if you consider it of value. i bought a 70D way back just because of the DPAF. i hated the IQ and i mean really hated it but bought it anyway because the AF was so unbelievable. i never really used it (to be expected) but my brain wanted that AF and thought i would fit it in here or there. eventually i got the 1DXmkII and i lean on its AF all the time.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Yes I had a good laugh when I saw that earlier. I guarantee you that no one will shoot a wedding in 8K with this camera more than once in their life.
The ceremony usually lasts about a half hour. That part is event. The rest of the day is a mix of doc and fashion and you're usually rolling a lot too. Nothing is usable but low-quality mode for weddings with this camera.
I've also never cropped a shot from a wedding. Framing is very important. And the idea that you could pull your wedding photos from video still frames is funny. That would have to be a very budget-conscious client.
I once filmed a wedding next to a Nikon ambassador who was taking the stills (Cliff Mautner). I've never seen a snapper take more variations of each and every shot - numerous minor framing adjustments plus bracketing and different focus. Camera placement and composition really matter for wedding photography, as does using a flash.
NorBro
Major Contributor
This feature and locking focus when the subject exits is called 'face-only' (not to be confused with face-tracking or face-detection), and only available in the cinema cameras.
The a7R IV is a better video AF camera than the a7III so only going up from here.
Sony's technology is amazing and just as good if not better in some instances, but it's the GUI I'm not crazy about. I also like the simplicity of Canon's interface.