Canon or Sony?

Zim said:
Maybe a in camera HD uprezzing system. That could work couldn't it? Jan pass that along to the R&D boys.
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But that would be the HVX wouldnt it? :P OK OK one second... its a joke.

Canon will still get my money for the simple fact they are using proven technology from the Xlh1. But thats only me.
 
Kholi said:
I'm sure you'll soon be able to get a component out cable for it that goes to HDMI, so I could still use the Intensity capture card.
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Is this even possible? I thought that component was analog and HDMI was digital? If this is the case then no 'passive' cable could integrate the two.

You could always record component directly into a DVCPRO deck?!

What are our options with the uncompressed component out? Is this useless or can cineform live ingest be used for this?

Or should I just buck up and get the G1 (or the HVX for that price).
 
Is this cheaper than the A1 -> G1 upgrade?

Aja HD10A

Wonder if there's something like this for HDMI?

too bad they don't make an external A/D converter that captures into firewire...(possible?)
 
HD-SDI is important but not AS important as timecode, i think.

There is no "FIELD" equipment that will take HD-SDI that does not take COMPONENT as well. And if there is, then that same company undoubtedly makes a component alternative (like marshall monitors). So if you think about it, HD-SDI is more of a 'convienence' for field/production. Now in the post-production/studio world it's much more needed then the field, but still, not THAT much more needed over component, because again, every piece of equipment you have in your "STUDIO" that takes HD-SDI, also takes COMPONENT as well..... EVERYTHING!

Now when it comes to HD-SDI vs. COMPONENT in trms of 'quality', yes, HD-SDI is a smidget cleaner...and believe me i do mean just a SMIDGET. I'm talking put on your bifocals, grab the magnafying glass and smash your nose against the 30" HD monitor to actually see it kinda difference. I've only compared this once back in December and when Me and Nick compared the two, that's what we had to do to see the difference in quality. The Component signal had a teeny bit of dancing in it, while the HD-SDI was rock solid still & crystal clear. For all we know, it was the studio equipment doing it and not the camera.

So in practicality, HD-SDI = convienence.

What is a major difference is TIMECODE+GENLOCK. Now that my friends is a big deal. Especially for moviemaking. When you start graduating into more serious production beyond senior thesis', short films & spec. commercials, you'll soon discover that having timecode is a MUST. From Music Video production, to Movies to Commercials, timecode is a major lifesaver and timesaver accross the board. In field production it's extremely important because of things like VTR/SOUND playback situation...especially for music videos and commercials. also having timecode jamsynced to or from the sound dept. or other cameras on the shoot allows easy review of previously shot footage during your downtime (like lunch or between setups or company moves). For post-production timecode is a godsend! Editors, especially the ones who weren't part of the production process, will absolutely adore you and you will SAVE $$$$$ by eliminating countless hours of sync & match. Then you have the music department who will be scoring your projects at the same time the editor is cutting it all the while the visual effects department is making animations and the sound designer is adding the bigger explosion noises. All these departments may be at their own facility working like an orchestra and they may collaborate by sending snippets of footage and music and sounds and fx via the internet....all with timecode.

So that's why, to me atleast, timecode trumps the scale of importance over HD-SDI, and I beleive anybody who gets a G1 should get it for the above reasons.
 
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Agreed, except for one factor. HD-SDI is designed for long cable runs, analog component isn't. So yes the quality factor might be minor when using a 3' cable, but if you try to run 300' of cable, you'll find HD-SDI holds up a lot better.

If someone wants to RECORD an HD-SDI signal, that's where they'll find what Shannon is really concerned about. Recording HD-SDI is kind of difficult if you don't have timecode and you don't have embedded audio. The G1 and the HD250 offer that, the XLH1 doesn't. So the XLH1's HD-SDI is great for a live camera switching scenario, multiple cameras in a studio feeding an HD-SDI signal to a switcher (because you don't need timecode or audio for that!) but if you want to actually record the uncompressed HD signal somehow, an embedded timecode/audio system like the G1 or HD250 would be better.
 
meta4 said:
Is this even possible? I thought that component was analog and HDMI was digital? If this is the case then no 'passive' cable could integrate the two.

You could always record component directly into a DVCPRO deck?!

What are our options with the uncompressed component out? Is this useless or can cineform live ingest be used for this?

Or should I just buck up and get the G1 (or the HVX for that price).
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You're right. I got the connections backward. It would be HDMI to Component, not the other way around. So that kinda defeats the idea.

And I suppose you could always rent a DVCpro deck. I was thinking of an owned solution.

Thanks for pointing that out.
 
meta4 said:
Is this useless or can cineform live ingest be used for this?
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We are looking into direct capture to CineForm over HDMI, in addition to the existign analog component and HDSDI capture with Prospect HD.
 
man, that hdmi is a big factor then, it just seems more efficient keeping the data digital rather than component.

I could almost see an HDMI portable capture device coming out soon. But that would most likely never happen for component.

Dang it Canon, why can't you just knock out Sony!!! (shakes fist)
 
I've been researching both these cams they seem cool. There's one think everyone's overlooking though.

From what I hear, Canon 24F looses resolution.
Sony's 24P does not.

Is this true? Thanks.
 
Yes and No.

Canon doesn't have the vertical resolution of the new Sony, yet Canon has the better horizontal resolution. There are both excellent cameras.
 
David,
how do you know? You've tested this on a rez chart already? or are you speculating?

I remember a time when the Z1U had excellent resolution numbers, now the same people say it sucks.
 
We have a Canon and the horizontal res is excellent, a lot due to the 1440x1080 sensors (and the HDSDI output is amazing.) We have Sony V1U footage, and 960x1080 diagonal ClearVid sensor will not resolve as much as the Canon horizontally, but the Sony V1U clearly has a smoother nicer vertical res. I don't have resolution chart numbers from the Sony V1U, nor would I post them if it did until the camera is released (need to maintain a good relationship with our friends at Sony, Canon and JVC.)
 
Grrrrrrrrr, ahhhh c'mon Dave. Sony wouldn't care.

My lips are :lipsrseal

I predict about 2 dozen head to head shootouts will be conducted all over the world with these two cameras. We'll see how it fairs out in terms of resolution when they are shot at the same time @ the same scene.
 
The difference though is the capture card:

HDMI: <$300
Component/HDSDI: ~$1000

That's 700 bones, and that's a lot of money for us newbs trying to build our business.

Especially considering how expensive the aspect and prospect HD software is. (I'm gonna have to get it though, when I get an HDV camera)

Question for David:
Does cineform really convert 4:2:0 HDV into 4:2:2 HD?
Can I convert 4:2:0 HDV into 4:4:4 SD?

:dankk2:
 
meta4 said:
Question for David:
1) Does cineform really convert 4:2:0 HDV into 4:2:2 HD?
2) Can I convert 4:2:0 HDV into 4:4:4 SD?

:dankk2:
Click to expand...

Yes and Yes (although not is a single pass for SD 4:4:4 -- but you can do that from an AE or PPro timeline.)
 
David Newman said:
nor would I post them if it did until the camera is released (need to maintain a good relationship with our friends at Sony, Canon and JVC.)
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me likes this Mr. David Newman. You're a Sir!

a good example to these forums..

David Newman said:
It is not CineForm's place to do a camera shootout, as we benefit when all cameras sell well.
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