Canon or Sony?

Barry_Green said:
So you can't make any assumptions whatsoever anymore. I will not assume that the V1 has optical stabilization until it's somewhere documented and proven. Nowhere in their marketing materials, data sheets, or anywhere else do they mention anything about optical image stabilization. The A1U is marketed in their same professional line and it has electronic stabilization, so there is precedent. I would tend to think it's electronic until proven otherwise.
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Again, like I said, I have not found anything directly from Sony saying explicitly what type of SteadyShot is in the HVR-V1U. But I don't see why it is necessary to create doubt about what type of SteadyShot it is when the following circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly shows that it is most likely the same optical SteadyShot system as in the other high-end HDV camcorders:

- The HVR-Z1U uses an optical SteadyShot (source: HVR-Z1U Brochure)
- The HDR-FX1 uses an optical SteadyShot (source: HDR-FX1 Brochure)
- The HDR-FX7 uses an optical SteadyShot (source: HDR-FX7 Press Release)

Since the HVR-V1U is the professional version of the HDR-FX7, it would seem logical and highly likely that it would have the same optical SteadyShot.
 
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Aha! Yes it does say optical in the FX7. I was searching V1U stuff and couldn't find any reference to optical (or electronic for that matter). But in the FX7 press release they did say optical, which leaves no doubt that the V1U would also be optical.
 
That's what I thought. I'm relatively new to the camera stuff, but going through articles and aged reviews on SOny products they've seemed rather untrustworthy.

The HDMI thing really had me thinking up until I saw HV10 footage. Canon's camera's are really clean and I know I can trust their marketing, even if they're fixing prices across the board.Grr...
 
Barry_Green said:
Aha! Yes it does say optical in the FX7. I was searching V1U stuff and couldn't find any reference to optical (or electronic for that matter). But in the FX7 press release they did say optical, which leaves no doubt that the V1U would also be optical.
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Ditto.
 
So just by what we know now. If you had to pick from the Canon A1 or the Sony V1 to make a movie which one would you use?

I know it is hard to say , but from the specs? Lens etc.
 
I'm leaning toward the A1, to be honest. And that's after seeing footage from the H1 and the HV10.

300 dollars less, even with the V1u Street price.

Wider lens already. I'm sure you'll soon be able to get a component out cable for it that goes to HDMI, so I could still use the Intensity capture card.

I'm looking forward to next month.
 
If you're making a movie, based on the specs only, at this time I would choose the A1.

The heavier weight is actually better when on a tripod, which it should be on one if you're shooting a movie. The wider lens is also better for narrative work. And the strongest ND filter is 1 stop stronger than the V1U. The 1/3" lens will give you slightly narrower DOF too.

But the V1U's ace in the hole may be those sneaky CMOS sensors. It's hard to argue with 24P/30P native progressive. CMOS also doesn't seem to smear and could possibly have greater dynamic range (but this remains to be seen). HDMI is also tempting for effects work. And the lighter weight makes a difference if you do a lot of handheld. But then again, the A1's internal battery bay is better for cold weather filming, like with snowboarding.

Dangit, it sure is hard to choose.
 
I clearly don't know much about this so can someone explain to me how exactly the Sony is going to get more dyamic range when it's only got a little 1/4 censor? For that matter, what leads us to believe this is going to be any better than the overgrown consumer cameras that the FX1 and Z1s were as far as narrative filmmaking (is the 24p mode going to look just as odd with just as much resolution lose)?
 
Well, Size doesnt matter. Why? Because CCD and CMOS are two different beasts. The little 1/4 sensor can get more dynamic range because CMOS technology is (apparently!) better at that.

What leads us to believe the new Sony will be better than the older sonys? Simply because we are taking sony's word that it is true progressive. If it is, then its going to rock. If not, well then its a shame.

@Zim: Based on just what we know now from specs, I wouldnt buy either cam...Yet! Why, because we have no clue how CMOS in progressive is suppossed to perform. There is no other reference. Besides, both of them have some features better than the other, and lack at some. So its a REALLy tough choice.
 
Fugitive said:
Why, because we have no clue how CMOS in progressive is suppossed to perform. There is no other reference.
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There is one other reference...the RED ONE. But that may not be a fair comparison since that is a mighty big chip with nice fat pixels and of course some Mysterium magic.
 
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Fugitive said:
Well, Size doesnt matter. Why? Because CCD and CMOS are two different beasts. The little 1/4 sensor can get more dynamic range because CMOS technology is (apparently!) better at that.

What leads us to believe the new Sony will be better than the older sonys? Simply because we are taking sony's word that it is true progressive. If it is, then its going to rock. If not, well then its a shame.

@Zim: Based on just what we know now from specs, I wouldnt buy either cam...Yet! Why, because we have no clue how CMOS in progressive is suppossed to perform. There is no other reference. Besides, both of them have some features better than the other, and lack at some. So its a REALLy tough choice.
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Your right it is going to be a tough choice. But before i buy I'm going to need to see more from both cameras.
 
I won't say who said this but I ask if they thought the Canon would be the best choice for movie making:

"Hi Bob; there is no doubt in my mind that 24F is the best image to replace film there is. the XL H1 was named best second unit cam to the Sony CineAlta for 24F and it's compatibility. so, no doubt whatsoever it will be the most sought after The Sony is 24P. They couldn't make a deal with Canon, so they had to go back to the old Panasonic format. Canon used 30P and 24P longer than anyone did, but now that Digic II is doing 24F, 24P is a poor second for what it is supposed to do. It is just very old technology. 24F is new, and made specifically to look like real film."
 
Zim,
that pure F.U.D. - don't beleive it.

How many times Jarred Land, Barry Green, Steve Mullen, Graeme Nattress, Barlow Elton, Adam Wilt, Simon Wyndham, Michael Pappas, Ash Greyson, John Hudson, Douglas Spotted Eagle, Robert Sanders, Steve Rosen, Mike Curtis, Steven Dempsey, Nick Hiltgen, John Cordell, Allister Chapman, Nate Weaver, Shane Valdez, Tim Dashwood, Gary McClurg, A. J. deLange, David Mullen, Greg Boston, Danilo Del Tufo, Stephen Noe, David Newman not to mention SalaTar, Benton, MacGregor, Pazzuzu, Marcio and countless other respected professionals gotta say this....

24p does not LOOK like film.... it only MOVES like film. THAT'S IT!!

to say that 24p is a close 2nd to what it's supposed to do is utterly dumb. the Panasonic method of 24p does EXACLTY what it's supposed to do when processed corectly in post. So does the Canon method of 24f. Infact, 24p and 24f are both awesome and they are indistinguishable from each other as far as motion cadence (their purpose) is concerned. As far as I'm concerned they are the same!

24f = interlaced scanning with progressive recording
24p = progressive scanning with interlacd recording
both = 23.976 frames per second like standard film

The ingredients that is required to make video "LOOK" like film has everything to do with MANY other factors and absolutely nothing to do with the framerate...Why? Because film can move at 30fps if you tell it to! Heck, it can move at 60fps if you tell it to too!

Trick Question: Does film recorded at 60p look like film?
*smile*

Sony couldn't strike a deal?? LOL, man please, that's just dumb too. Sony probably didn't WANT to strike a deal because they needed to be compatible with their other 100,000+ sold products out there.

Friends & Family,
the answer to the question "Which camera is best for making a movie" does not lie between the difference of 24f and 24p.....they ultimately are the same, so just forget that factor.
Instead the answer lies between the other major features of these cameras. THAT'S what you should compare.

I hope that helps,
 
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ShannonRawls said:
Zim,
that pure F.U.D. - don't beleive it.

How many times Jarred Land, Barry Green, Steve Mullen, Graeme Nattress, Barlow Elton, Adam Wilt, Simon Wyndham, Michael Pappas, Ash Greyson, John Hudson, Douglas Spotted Eagle, Robert Sanders, Steve Rosen, Mike Curtis, Steven Dempsey, Nick Hiltgen, John Cordell, Allister Chapman, Nate Weaver, Shane Valdez, Tim Dashwood, Gary McClurg, A. J. deLange, Steve Mullen, Greg Boston, Danilo Del Tufo, Stephen Noe, not to mention SalaTar, Benton, MacGregor, Pazzuzu, Marcio and countless other respected professionals gotta say this....
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Where's my name there, Shannon?... :cheesy: :laugh: Alright, I am with the other respected professionals, that's OK! :) But not countless!... There? Nope... :D

Cheers! :beer:
 
ShannonRawls said:
Thank me?
naw....thank YOU Zim for exposing truth and validity.
It's rare
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I've only owned a XL1s a couple of years ago. So all this 24F and 24P stuff is new to me. So I'm listen to you guys. Most of you have done and used it. You never know what you might here from sales people. Not that they are not right, but the internet really gives a person a much better view of things.

So I'm going to see what happens when the Canon A1 and the Sony V1 come out. I think they are both going to be very good cameras. I lean alittle more to the Sony for some reason. I want a smaller size too.

Plus who know what Panny might do!!
 
Zim said:
I've only owned a XL1s a couple of years ago. So all this 24F and 24P stuff is new to me. So I'm listen to you guys. Most of you have done and used it. You never know what you might here from sales people. Not that they are not right, but the internet really gives a person a much better view of things.
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I'm with you Zim. It might be why I was out from that Shannon's list (I'm just joking! :laugh:) even if Steve Mullen was mentioned twice...

But you, Shannon, must know what I'm thinking about you as a rebel with a cause. When you're saying that «truth and validity. It's rare» I just can agree even if from that list there are a lot of different colors, indeed...
 
Zim said:
Plus who know what Panny might do!!
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Ah yes, the proverbial Ace in the hole... The wild card. Will they release an HVX replacement? Of course. The question is when, and with what specs, and at what price point... As a technology buff, I'd love to see this too. As a realist though and for my own purposes it really is a moot point.

I'm looking at the Canon and Sony because as nice as the HVX is, I'd rather pay 4k and tapes than $5500 for the camera, another $2000 for P2 cards, $600 for a P2Store, and all of a sudden i'm at $8000 for which I could also have:

2 CANONS!! or 2 SONYS!!

Multicam editing anyone?

Just my thoughts,
Jeremy
 
or a 16:9 DVX. Not even HD. Man what seller that would be,,,,maybe a few other new things on it. I know I know Panasonic will never do that. But they should
Maybe a in camera HD uprezzing system. That could work couldn't it? Jan pass that along to the R&D boys.
 
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