canon moire and aliasing...?

wgzn

wgzn

Veteran
ok. in the whole DSLR comparison. a lot comes up about the infamous canon aliasing and moire issues. ive seen it in clips on line but never experienced it personally.

is this REALLY an issue with the canon cameras or is just an issue of user error or certain lenses?

i cant believe anyone would drop $2k on a camera that cant cleanly reproduce roof shingles or a denim jacket...?
 
is this REALLY an issue with the canon cameras or is just an issue of user error or certain lenses?

i cant believe anyone would drop $2k on a camera that cant cleanly reproduce roof shingles or a denim jacket...?
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Yepper. It's true...it's a problem...and yes...roofs shingles don't look good from a distance...(many other items too).

That said....a properly lit actress' face can look 98% as good 35mm film....so that's why they're all the rage.

ps...it's NOT just a problem with certain lenses. It's a problem that happens at the sensor level....so no lens can "fix it". FYI.
 
a properly lit actress' face can look 98% as good 35mm film....so that's why they're all the rage.
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apparently, as long as she's not wearing a finely woven sweater ; )
 
HHL said:
....a properly lit actress' face can look 98% as good 35mm film....so that's why they're all the rage.
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Tho I love my DSLR and used it for a lot of professional stuff including shorts, i was shocked to see color aliasing on the creases in my forehead. -stop laughing! I'm serious!
 
teddybear said:
Tho I love my DSLR and used it for a lot of professional stuff including shorts, i was shocked to see color aliasing on the creases in my forehead. -stop laughing! I'm serious!
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if that's a picture of you on the left, I don't see the creases, but I understand how moire could appear at specific distances...

now, seriously: I can live with aliasing, kind of, but moire is a b****; most people shooting video with these cameras know how to avoid it, but that means not putting some stuff in front of your camera, which is a big restriction (plus sometimes you just don't have that option)

on the lens issue: sharper lenses will give you moire a bit more easily, but that doesn't mean you won't get moire on soft lenses (for a trip to Rome, I took my 550D with the kit lens, and put a $3 UV filter from ebay in front of it; still, the resulting holiday video could be titled "welcome to brick hell"; still, after a week on vimeo, a small local TV station asked me for permission to broadcast it; go figure...)
 
wgzn said:
ok. in the whole DSLR comparison. a lot comes up about the infamous canon aliasing and moire issues. ive seen it in clips on line but never experienced it personally.

is this REALLY an issue with the canon cameras or is just an issue of user error or certain lenses?

i cant believe anyone would drop $2k on a camera that cant cleanly reproduce roof shingles or a denim jacket...?
Click to expand...


I think you need to do more research....... You can buy a t2i for $700 that can rival images produced by a RED, Film and many other cameras @ certain angles, especially close ups. Yes wide shots can be a problem and roofs are a weak point, but Dslr users find way around this.
 
life4eva said:
I think you need to do more research....... You can buy a t2i for $700 that can rival images produced by a RED, Film and many other cameras @ certain angles, especially close ups. Yes wide shots can be a problem and roofs are a weak point, but Dslr users find way around this.
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There isn't a single Dslr at any angle that can rival the image of a RED or better camera technically. The differences side by side on even a high quality vimeo video are obvious.

Whether you can see them or not is a different matter.
 
Damn, here I was looking for the "like" button for your post Kholi. I think that'll go in the suggestion box.

Kegan
 
The original topic here is clear - is moire and aliasing something inherent to Canon DSLRs or is it being caused by user error.
Let's not turn this into another vs thread that turns into a flame war.

Any further posts that go into that territory will be deleted.
Let's keep it on topic.
 
I have shot two projects this week

monday - 5d/7d, the 5d alaised, the 7 I had to synch sound, and lost some vision due to a dodgy HDMI cable

Some CU images however were just absolutely awesome

Today I shot EX1, that basically looks mildy foggy in comparison, no real clarity to what is in focus, no 'vavoom' to the images - it looks like cheap television

It seems that for sub $10k you are between a rock and a hard place

Maybe Af100/sonyF3 is the mid ground

S
 
WGZN I can tell you that after having shot with the 5D, the 7D and the 60D for the past few years that moire and aliasing are most definitely inherent in the camera.
As was mentioned, it's possible to avoid moire somewhat - though I don't really feel that "just don't shoot that" is a realistic solution (but it's the onlyl one we have unless you want to shoot everything in soft focus).

I've had moire show up in interviews on talent's clothing more than once and there was literally nothing that could be done about it other than to have the talent change their outfit.
In the cases where that wasn't an option, all we could do was live with it. Luckily most of those interviews were for web distribution, and once the full rez video was crunched down for online viewing the moire nearly vanished due to the compression.

Aliasing is just there - it's there all the time and there really isn't anything you can do about it as far as I know.
A few people have tried using antialiasing filters (caprock, I believe, makes one) - but I haven't been too impressed with the results that I've seen.

In the end, it's inherent to how Canon is reading the information off the sensor - as far as I understand it.
 
wgzn said:
ok. in the whole DSLR comparison. a lot comes up about the infamous canon aliasing and moire issues. ive seen it in clips on line but never experienced it personally.

is this REALLY an issue with the canon cameras or is just an issue of user error or certain lenses?

i cant believe anyone would drop $2k on a camera that cant cleanly reproduce roof shingles or a denim jacket...?
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Knowing that aliasing and moire would be a problem, I recently shot the Grand Canyon with a 7D. Though Vimeo conversion was forgiving in this case, the canyon inner gorge does not have the soft look of this video. Also, old, brown, wood buildings are a problem for the 7D.

http://www.vimeo.com/18944525

As contrast, this video was shot with the Panasonic HDC-TM700 and no aliasing or moire.

http://www.vimeo.com/14609937

Otherwise, if a scene contains minimal detail or shallow DOF is used, aliasing and moire can be well controlled with the Canon DSLRs.
 
AFAIK you can use the softar filter from zeiss, but then your clips will end up with a '70s look....which I do not like that much.
I've been using the 5D for most of my stock footages and always complained about moire. Now I'm using mostly a GH2 and I must admit that moire is not an issue anymore!
 
diegocervo said:
AFAIK you can use the softar filter from zeiss, but then your clips will end up with a '70s look....which I do not like that much.
I've been using the 5D for most of my stock footages and always complained about moire. Now I'm using mostly a GH2 and I must admit that moire is not an issue anymore!
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Good to know. I'm also looking at going GH2, just need to get past the no inventory in the US issue.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
WGZN I can tell you that after having shot with the 5D, the 7D and the 60D for the past few years that moire and aliasing are most definitely inherent in the camera.
As was mentioned, it's possible to avoid moire somewhat - though I don't really feel that "just don't shoot that" is a realistic solution (but it's the onlyl one we have unless you want to shoot everything in soft focus).

I've had moire show up in interviews on talent's clothing more than once and there was literally nothing that could be done about it other than to have the talent change their outfit.
In the cases where that wasn't an option, all we could do was live with it. Luckily most of those interviews were for web distribution, and once the full rez video was crunched down for online viewing the moire nearly vanished due to the compression.

Aliasing is just there - it's there all the time and there really isn't anything you can do about it as far as I know.
A few people have tried using antialiasing filters (caprock, I believe, makes one) - but I haven't been too impressed with the results that I've seen.

In the end, it's inherent to how Canon is reading the information off the sensor - as far as I understand it.
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Yes, and more yes.

Honestly, I wish there wasn't aliasing on the 5D or The MKIV ( is that what it is? ) because I like the full frame or larger sensor look when applied properly. Closest way to get to it otherwise is using Master primes on the wide end with other cameras, or actual iMax.

Hope the next gen of full frame dslrs nix aliasing and more.
 
thanks for the verification gang! my whole problem is that about 10% of my work is still photography. i used to have a brevis+nikon 35mm adapter rig and a nikon d200 still cam. figured both still photo and "filmic video" were such a small part of my biz, id just sell it all and get a 5Dll and kill 2 birds with one stone. that was until i used a 5D and didnt care for it. liked the 7D more and was set on that until i discovered all this moire/alias horsehockey.

oh well, as things stand now. it seems my most reasonable option is a gh2...
 
Ive been shooting video for a while. I've never noticed any moire or aliasing in my videos. Probably because I shoot flat?
I did a shoot today, and knew I wasnt going to be colour correcting it, so I just shot standard, and instantly saw it. So, that is factor for sure.
 
Apart from your sharpness setting being turned down a touch, your presets will have very little affect on moire.
 
yep, I also shot flat in Rome, and it didn't help; there's no escape when all you have to shoot are lots of (very impressive) old bricks...
 
DDirector said:
Ive been shooting video for a while. I've never noticed any moire or aliasing in my videos. Probably because I shoot flat?
I did a shoot today, and knew I wasnt going to be colour correcting it, so I just shot standard, and instantly saw it. So, that is factor for sure.
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I haven't notices much or any aliasing or moire in 11 months of shooting with a 550D and 60D except in extreme asking for it cases. I also shoot everything very flat and work it up in post. Maybe that's it.
 
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