Canon Fires Back: 4K DSLR, (that was a fast)

So is it a safe bet to assume that the current MarkII will stay the same price/go lower and this new camera will be priced much higher? Since I'm pretty much out of reach for Scarlet, I'm thinking of just pulling the trigger on a 5D to tide me over.
 
azonicbruce said:
So is it a safe bet to assume that the current MarkII will stay the same price/go lower and this new camera will be priced much higher? Since I'm pretty much out of reach for Scarlet, I'm thinking of just pulling the trigger on a 5D to tide me over.
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this new camera won't be out for a very long time probably late 2012 so don't hold your breath
 
azonicbruce said:
So is it a safe bet to assume that the current MarkII will stay the same price/go lower and this new camera will be priced much higher? Since I'm pretty much out of reach for Scarlet, I'm thinking of just pulling the trigger on a 5D to tide me over.
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Seriously consider the Panasonic AF100 then. It's essentially a DLSR with proper audio functions, and little to no moire issues. You can use just about any glass on the AF100 with an adapter.
 
azonicbruce said:
So is it a safe bet to assume that the current MarkII will stay the same price/go lower and this new camera will be priced much higher? Since I'm pretty much out of reach for Scarlet, I'm thinking of just pulling the trigger on a 5D to tide me over.
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Canon is drawing a line in the sand here. It's still possible/likely a 5DmkIII will be released. But chances are it will be regarded more as a stills camera with higher resolution even if it may have slightly better video and video codec. But obviously Canon has realized that a 24MP chip is difficult to make work for both stills and video. So now they will be releasing lower resolution dedicated "C" cameras that are designed for video.

Maybe this is why they decided to cut the 1D line down to just one model. They just made the other one a "C" camera.
 
Bravo Canon for trying, although they've clearly missed the mark.
I'm still waiting patiently for a sub-$3k prosumer model dedicated 35mm video camera, tailored specifically for video.
 
I'll add to that. Canon, make it interesting fast or you're going to loose me. The 300 looks good but it's misses the mark for so many of us.
 
shadowgodes said:
here's the thing 4k DSLR doesn't mean SQUAT. The only reason red's 4k is so important is because it is 4k RAW. Canon DSLR is already far higher than 4k. Even the 5d mark II is the equivalent of like 10k sensor (24 megapixels). The whole point is that that 10k sensor is down converting and pixel binning everything because it's a compressed piece of junk. Red's 4k is actual 4k RAW so this new 4k DSLR big deal that means it's a 8 megapixel DSLR and it will NOT be Raw, I highly doubt that cus Canon has no raw proprietary codec like REDRAW so this means it will be the same old 4:2:0 8bit junk mpeg 2 probably down converting everything.
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Im confused by your post. How do you figure 10k from a 24 megapixel sensor? Mega pixels do not directly relate to resolution and its not really a 24 mega pixel sensor. I might be wrong here, but from my understanding from a previous s35 vs mkII sensor discussion with the information being grabbed from AC May 2011 and June 2011 editions, you CAN NOT compare a still sensor to a motion picture sensor.

The 5d (along with other dslrs) gets 24 mega pixels through RGBG mapping, which would make it more like 6 megapixels without it. I understand what your saying (I think), but I do not believe mega pixels directly relate to resolution and I don't see where your getting 10k resolution from the 5d?
 
Erik Naso said:
Why on earth would anyone want to shoot video on a DSLR anymore. Its a PITA! We have so many better choices it just blows me away. Go for it and enjoy all the headaches with audio.
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Because most people are making NARRATIVE pieces with DSLRs. DSLRs are not popular because they're good at recording basketball games and interviews. They're popular because they make cinematic images. People that want those images (and know how to achieve them) also know that on-board audio is a joke for this type of film-making. You need a sound guy with a mixer/pre-amps and quality mics to get that cinematic sound to accompany your cinematic image. If you're actually planning on using on-board audio for making any serious film... then you're in the wrong business.
 
Oh man! It starts again... 2 years later: This thread reaches 8000 posts just before the new Canon 4K DSLR unveiling.

I hope it's mirror-less.

Erik Naso said:
Why on earth would anyone want to shoot video on a DSLR anymore. Its a PITA! We have so many better choices it just blows me away. Go for it and enjoy all the headaches with audio.
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Price matey, price. Some of us can't afford 10K on a Scarlet.
 
HHL said:
It is VERY early for me to EVEN suggest this, but, it may be the "Holy Grail" for us all.

I ACTUALLY THINK this announcement was a DIRECT RESPONSE to Red's Announcement. I could be wrong, but I sincerely think that Red Camera Company has finally got what they were "asking for". I think they have "woke the sleeping giant". I think the Nov 3 announcement from Canon was "fine". I think they know that the 10K deal that Red just put out there just DESTROYED their annoucement....(and I find it curious that a Red Epic owner shot some of Canon's footy.....hmmmmm.....I wonder if Red Camera Co KNEW that they HAD to throw in the kitchen sink. I think it's Canon's turn....and I don't think they are ready right now.

(Such as, their 20K cam shoots 1080P....so NOW they have a DSLR announced that shoots 4K????) Uh...I'll only whisper this, but I think that it is EXACTLY that: Canon is going to take DIRECT AIM at Red's Announcement...and try to "out gun them". Canon CAN'T be ready for this right now, ....I wonder how long it will take for them to 'get ready'? I can't WAIT to find out!!!!

Of course....I could be COMPLETELY WRONG. (lol)
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I think your completely correct. This left some red (excuse the pun) faces at Canon, and they wont take that lightly. Watch this space.
 
Here's the deal.
Canon has made us wait too long.
When they finally coughed something up it was way out of our reach.
There is no 5D form factor replacement even anywhere in sight. We are going way beyond the traditional market cycle.
Teasing us with announcements for another 1D type DSLR that won't even hit the market until the end of next year is pathetic.
(Heck the 1DX isn't even slated until March)
It clearly represents scrambling after a RED blindside.
It is not even in Canon's nature to make such an open ended press release.
"We are working on it."
This is a marketing failure.
Canon, get of your stoop, come down to the average Joe in a forum like this and deliver in the beginning of next year.
Or lose your market.
End of story.

Come January 1st. RED will be receiving a check from my personal account.
On the forum that I help moderate I will recommend that others do the same unless something very real and very affordable is in the pipeline NOW.

Put up or shut up time.
 
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I highly doubt Canon would even be thinking about getting into the cinema cam business if it wern't for the unexpected sales of the 5d. It makes nice pictures for an affordable price. We know they can make something better in the same price range. Why wouldn't they continue with that same logic is beyond me. Just a few improvements to the 5d is all most dslr shooters are after. I feel they cut their own throat with a 20k cinema cam that shoots 720 60p. Thats laughable.

At least Sony is offering a decent lens set with the f3 for 20k, and it's a real camcorder form factor. I wouldn't even Canon now the f3's out there.
 
yoclay said:
Here's the deal.
Canon has made us wait too long.
When they finally coughed something up it was way out of our reach.
There is no 5D form factor replacement even anywhere in sight. We are going way beyond the traditional market cycle.
Teasing us with announcements for another 1D type DSLR that won't even hit the market until the end of next year is pathetic.
(Heck the 1DX isn't even slated until March)
It clearly represents scrambling after a RED blindside.
It is not even in Canon's nature to make such an open ended press release.
"We are working on it."
This is a marketing failure.
Canon, get of your stoop, come down to the average Joe in a forum like this and deliver in the beginning of next year.
Or lose your market.
End of story.

Come January 1st. RED will be receiving a check from my personal account.
On the forum that I help moderate I will recommend that others do the same unless something very real and very affordable is in the pipeline NOW.

Put up or shut up time.
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+1 I think this sums it up. If you are going to compete with an F3, at least you need to match it. The C300 specs would make the sub $10,000 market happy, but not the $15,000+ market. All they need to do is update the 5D with a "C" designation so it is not viewed as a stills first camera and they would make a lot of customers happy. I guess they are not ready to make that leap from a support point of view.
 
Canon fires back with no bullets in their gun. They are "developing" this new camera. Canon has known for years what people want and they still haven't delivered and a 20k camera doesn't cut it. I hope the Scarlet eats it for lunch.
 
acoelho1 said:
Canon fires back with no bullets in their gun. They are "developing" this new camera. Canon has known for years what people want and they still haven't delivered and a 20k camera doesn't cut it. I hope the Scarlet eats it for lunch.
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The scarlet will most likely have better sales than the 300c. But I feel they decieved us to. I mean it began with 3k, for 3k. Now it's 3k for 20k. at least close to 20k for a shootable setup. And Canon with their big world announcement that most people can't afford. If they said, something to the effect of "big announcement for big bank accounts, well then that would have felt much better then a announcement for an overpriced silly looking half a camera.

I don't know, it seems to me that Panisonic has stayed true to their users, they know and understand their demographic, I mean their product manager comes to the board to help their customers. I never really thought much of it till know, but when you think about it, that in it's self is huge, and it shows they listen, they care. And they truely want to put affordable tools out there for the low budget indi filmmakers, they get were on low budgets. look at the gh2, yeah different part of the company, but with the same logic.

I guess i'm really dissapointed. As of now, I'm not paying a bit of attention to these stupid announcements that have no bearing on me what so ever. I think the majority of us thought they were going to unveil the camera we have been asking for for three years. just goes to show, they could give a rats ass about what their customers want and need. It wasn't Martin Scorsese that made the canon dslr's successful, it was their consumers, guys like Bloom, shane, and Charters. Canon really dropped the ball.

ok, im done ranting, sorry.
 
maranfilms said:
The scarlet will most likely have better sales than the 300c. But I feel they decieved us to. I mean it began with 3k, for 3k. Now it's 3k for 20k. at least close to 20k for a shootable setup. And Canon with their big world announcement that most people can't afford. If they said, something to the effect of "big announcement for big bank accounts, well then that would have felt much better then a announcement for an overpriced silly looking half a camera.

I don't know, it seems to me that Panisonic has stayed true to their users, they know and understand their demographic, I mean their product manager comes to the board to help their customers. I never really thought much of it till know, but when you think about it, that in it's self is huge, and it shows they listen, they care. And they truely want to put affordable tools out there for the low budget indi filmmakers, they get were on low budgets. look at the gh2, yeah different part of the company, but with the same logic.

I guess i'm really dissapointed. As of now, I'm not paying a bit of attention to these stupid announcements that have no bearing on me what so ever. I think the majority of us thought they were going to unveil the camera we have been asking for for three years. just goes to show, they could give a rats ass about what their customers want and need. It wasn't Martin Scorsese that made the canon dslr's successful, it was their consumers, guys like Bloom, shane, and Charters. Canon really dropped the ball.

ok, im done ranting, sorry.
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Where does this 20k figure come from? Seriously, it's 14k for the shooting package - 15k if you want an extra 64gb ssd. That's it. 20K would be quite a few extra goodies.
 
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