C100: Canon C100 Live Stream Audio Question

G

gentaylor

Member
Hi,

I'm setting up a live stream via YouTube, using a C100 Mk ii and two mics. For the video, I'm using a Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini Recorder. It takes an HDMI signal from the camera and sends a Thunderbolt stream into an iMac.

Here's my Q: Is it better to run the audio through the C100/Blackmagic or through a separate audio interface like this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1514482-REG/motu_3120_m2_2x2_usb_c_audio.html

My question has to do with both the quality of the audio and also (more importantly) synching the video and audio streams.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks.
 
gentaylor said:
Hi,

I'm setting up a live stream via YouTube, using a C100 Mk ii and two mics. For the video, I'm using a Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini Recorder. It takes an HDMI signal from the camera and sends a Thunderbolt stream into an iMac.

Here's my Q: Is it better to run the audio through the C100/Blackmagic or through a separate audio interface like this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1514482-REG/motu_3120_m2_2x2_usb_c_audio.html

My question has to do with both the quality of the audio and also (more importantly) synching the video and audio streams.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

We always run a Mackie analog mixer output into Ch1 of the A camera, assuring sync. Camera is hooked up to Live Stream Studio via SDI.
Latency is a huge factor with streaming and anything you can do to run your audio into your
camera will make things easier as everything begins in sync. Setting up picture delays to match audio latency or vice versa is a PITA.
 
Love the Ultrastudio mini recorder; it’s a fine piece of gear for HDMI/SDI capture on a Thunderbolt 2 Mac. Use it all the time, and will probably give it a workout as my college responds to the pandemic with remote instruction.

Puredrifting has it right; HDMI audio insertion at the camera is the only approach that makes sync easy and straightforward. The thing is, HDMI typically runs around 15 frames behind live. SDI, depending on the camera, should be running less than a frame behind. Getting the audio in pre-HDMI-encode is essential, and can make a meaningful difference for SDI as well.

PD mentions a Mackie analog mixer. You have options here, including most mixers, or, mics straight into the camera. A mixer typically gives you better monitoring, and may or may not improve quality in micro amounts. Depends on who is doing the mixing, among other things. Nothing wrong with either approach.
 
SethB said:
PD mentions a Mackie analog mixer. You have options here, including most mixers, or, mics straight into the camera. A mixer typically gives you better monitoring, and may or may not improve quality in micro amounts. Depends on who is doing the mixing, among other things. Nothing wrong with either approach.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't include a digital mixer anywhere in the chain if you can avoid it. We have an 18 channel Behriger with Smart Mixing that comes in handy for panel shoots with multiple mics open and it introduces at least a few frames of latency in comparison. Then we have to offset picture.
Luckily our engineer knows all of this gear really well and can figure this stuff out but it's still a pain. I recommend mics into camera or analog mixer output into camera.
 
I've done livestreaming both ways. I would suggest using the camera audio as your continuous audio stream rather than the usb interface. My reason is that some Macs and versions of MacOS have problems with usb audio interfaces due to clock interface problems. The USB interface might sound fine at the beginning, but you will hear more and more distortion in the audio and it can lead to a kernal panic. I would suggest feeding the audio into your camera through a powered mixer, though.
 
Hi. I have a similar set up, and I'm experiencing a different issue. I'm hoping someone can help me. Like gentaylor above, I'm shooting with a Canon C100ii with 2 XLR mics attached. HDMI out from the camera to a BMD UltraStudio Mini Recorder, and a Thunderbolt into a MacBook Pro mid-2015 Retna 15". I'm streaming via Zoom.us.
My problem is that Zoom.us will allow me to import only the video or the audio from the UltraStudio Mini Recorder, but not both at the same time. I've tried different HDMI cables and different Thunderbolt cables, same result. I suspect that Zoom.us is the culprit here. As of 6/1/20, they force users to update to their latest software version, and the latest version likely has bugs. So I'm trying to figure out a compromise set up that will work. Zoom.us will let me import the video from UltraStudio Mini Recorder, and then import the audio from the Macbook's internal mic. That's something, but not a solution for me since I have 2 mics involved. So, next I'm going to try importing audio via a USB mixer interface through the MacBook. I'd run my 2 mics through that USB mixer rather than my preferred way of the mics into the C100's XLR ports. I'm aware there could be some delay with a digital USB mixer, plus there will be video delay from the HDMI, so who knows how close to synch it will be. I'll test that out tomorrow or Monday, but I'd really appreciate any additional advice anyone might have. I shoot on Wednesday. Thanks.
 
In case this is helpful to anyone else, I'm going to report the results of a test I did today. Due likely to Zoom.us' 6-1-20 forced update to their latest version, my BMD UltraStudio Mini recorder no longer works to transmit both video and audio to my MacBook Pro. It can only transmit one or the other. So, I'll use the video from that BMD Mini recorder, and I'll import audio separately. Today I connected my two XLR mics to a Zoom H6 recorder, and I ran that to my laptop via USB in the audio interface mode. In the Zoom.us app, I selected the H6 as my audio source. That worked pretty well. As expected, due to the HDMI output from the camera, the video lags a few frames behind the audio. It's not a drastic lag, so I'm okay with that compromise this time around. Hopefully Zoom.us fixes the bugs in their new version so that it will work better with the BMD mini recorder soon.
 
Are you running OS Catalina? Had exactly the same issue last week with the same setup. I dropped a message onto the black magic forum and the suggestion was to update the os and use the latest driver for the ultra studio.

In Zoom if you see no audio coming in, try opening the stream, select “settings”, “audio” and set the audio to system default and then re set it to the ultrastudio. That’s worked for me.
 
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I am running OS Catalina. I'll check to make sure I've got the latest driver for the BMD Ultra Studio.
And then I'll try that audio selection method you suggested. Switching the audio input to system Default, and then to Ultra Studio. Thanks.
 
After another test, it was clear that the audio meter in the zoom.us preferences would not register during a pre-meeting set up. I had to actually be logged in to an active zoom meeting in order for the audio meters to move. A frustrating detail that I hope gets fixed in a future update. Once I understood that, I had no problem with either the audio or video coming through the HDMI/ BMD UltraStudio Mini Recorder/ Thunderbolt/ Macbook Pro chain. I'll bring my H6 audio interface to the shoot as a back up through. Thanks for your help!
 
I found that too. It’s frustrating when there’s a forced update, it doesn’t leave me with any confidence that everything will work as planned. I always check everything the day before (if not earlier) but that doesn’t help if the update comes over just when everything is being setup for a live event.

Good that you’ve got it all working though!
 
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