C300: Canon at NAB2015 starts to make "headlines"

DLD said:
Canon and Nikon remind me of Paul Sorvino's "Big Pauly Cicero" character in "Goodfellas", about whom Henry Hill says, "Paulie may have moved slow, but it was only because Paulie didn't have to move for anybody."
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What a great line.. So true..

Being heavily invested in Canon glass and seeing/experiencing the support/failure rate of these smart lens adapters keeps me away from anything sony at the moment. In business you will learn sooner or later that that the real value is not in just the product, but the service/support behind that product.

FS7 has some great features but ultimately still feels a bit "clunky"(much like the fs700). Judging from the volume of complaints/bugs it looks like this camera was almost certainly rushed to market. Canon has no demonstrated history of this behavior but seeing as how they are flourishing in their respective market, I would say they know what they are doing :)

Now bring on the rumors, jeesh we don't even have a vague feature list. Figured we would have at least seen a spec sheet by now.
 
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From CanonRumors

For the moment, we can confirm a Cinema EOS C300 Mark II which will record in 4K, as well as a Cinema EOS C500 Mark II coming to Las Vegas next month. We’ve also heard there is going to be a shoulder solution for the Cinema EOS bodies, which sounds like an accessory pack and not a shoulder designed Cinema EOS body. Although, we’ve heard such a camera is in the works.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/03/ultra-wide-angle-cinema-lens-coming-cr1/
 
Hearnia said:
From CanonRumors

For the moment, we can confirm a Cinema EOS C300 Mark II which will record in 4K, as well as a Cinema EOS C500 Mark II coming to Las Vegas next month. We’ve also heard there is going to be a shoulder solution for the Cinema EOS bodies, which sounds like an accessory pack and not a shoulder designed Cinema EOS body. Although, we’ve heard such a camera is in the works.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/03/ultra-wide-angle-cinema-lens-coming-cr1/
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Interesting that they don't consider FS7 to be competition. Is it really that much better? Or just that much more expensive? Since I have a C300 and don't need 4K, I won't upgrade for at least another year, so I'm not that excited at this point by the C300 MII. Is it unreasonable to hope Canon may release a mirrorless DSLR to compete with the A7S and GH4? That's what I really want for a compact B-cam to go with my C300. It seems Canon has conceded the DSLR market to Sony and Panasonic, I wish they would up their game.
 
brettsherman said:
Interesting that they don't consider FS7 to be competition. Is it really that much better? Or just that much more expensive? Since I have a C300 and don't need 4K, I won't upgrade for at least another year, so I'm not that excited at this point by the C300 MII. Is it unreasonable to hope Canon may release a mirrorless DSLR to compete with the A7S and GH4? That's what I really want for a compact B-cam to go with my C300. It seems Canon has conceded the DSLR market to Sony and Panasonic, I wish they would up their game.
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At the bottom of that post it says

On the consumer end of the spectrum, we will see a 4K G4 competitor.
 
The Sony E-mount is pretty sketchy, as are the various adapters. We have C300 PL's, and nothing beats a native PL-mount camera for rigidity, IMO. The C500 bayonet EF-mount is pretty good.

I'm loving the Canon CN-E lenses, prime and zoom. I was unhappy with Canon for not offering their CN-E primes in PL-mount, while doing so with the zooms. Happily Duclos Lenses has taken care of that issue for us.

Really looking forward to what Canon introduces at NAB. The Sony ecosystem is ultimately costly and product cycles are too short.
 
Hearnia said:
On the consumer end of the spectrum, we will see a 4K G4 competitor.
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I saw that after I posted. I hope so. Of course Canon has a way of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Let's hope it's not hobbled with a mirror, which Canon has been exceedingly slow to give up, or lack of a headphone jack, or poor low-light performance, or a crappy codec.
 
Oddly there seem to be people confirming both that there won't be a C300II this year and that there will be a C300II. Perhaps they are launching the C500II at NAB2015 and just announcing that the C300II is coming next year? Perhaps people don't know what 'confirm' means :)
 
nyvz said:
Oddly there seem to be people confirming both that there won't be a C300II this year and that there will be a C300II. Perhaps they are launching the C500II at NAB2015 and just announcing that the C300II is coming next year? Perhaps people don't know what 'confirm' means :)
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I don't think there is anyone confirming that the C300 mkII is NOT coming. Canonrumors has already said that a 4k version will come. Unless you mean that it will be soft launched BEFORE NAB. That is certainly a possibility.
 
LeoGrey said:
What a great line.. So true..

Being heavily invested in Canon glass and seeing/experiencing the support/failure rate of these smart lens adapters keeps me away from anything sony at the moment. In business you will learn sooner or later that that the real value is not in just the product, but the service/support behind that.
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Agreed. Service is paramount. Canon Cine EOS service is responsive and easy to deal with. Sony is more of a labyrinth. I was at a small dealer trade show looking at the FS7 and owners of F3's and F5's kept coming up to the Sony rep. unhappy about Sony undercutting their camera investmetnts. Same happens every year at NAB, like in 2013, when the F65 owners were unhappy with the F55's arrival.

I just had had a negative service/repair experience with one of the Asian cine lens rehousers. Had to send a lens back to China for repair and after waiting two weeks, was told it wasn't repairable because they can't get OEM parts in China from the Japanese lens manufacturer. Absurd. And ridiculous that they don't have authorized service or parts in the US.
 
Oh Whoops I guess I read that one wrong, but I thought I read elsewhere that they weren't releasing anything BELOW the C500II and assumed that was what he meant to say...
 
One move i'm hoping canon makes is the expansion of the EF-M mount. That would solve the PL/EF dilemma of the c300mk1 and open up lots of glass doors (get it?) but then again, canon sits pretty knowing it has their vast array of glass.
 
I am a photographer and a newbie filmmaker, and i am amazed with te quality of my c100 mark I
Yes Canon its a little conservative on the specs vs Sony, but i have to give the Kudos to Canon what they accomplish in they first try with Mark I Cinemas Line. C100-200-500.
Today i worked a full day in a corporate event with others photographers, my 120k shutter count 4 years old 5DmarkII have all the rubbers and plastics intact, and the photographer next to me have his d800 with peals off in body, rubbers in the lens with duck tape. (dont have any experience with the quality of the sony bodys)
Canon are truly workhorses, My C100 avchd codec give me files that blow-me ! with just a 32gb 15$ SD card
I hope that the prices are more low, c100 mark II - 4000$ and C300 MarkII for 9000$...my dream...
Great forum !
Pedro
 
PedroAquiles said:
I am a photographer and a newbie filmmaker, and i am amazed with te quality of my c100 mark I
Yes Canon its a little conservative on the specs vs Sony, but i have to give the Kudos to Canon what they accomplish in they first try with Mark I Cinemas Line. C100-200-500.
Today i worked a full day in a corporate event with others photographers, my 120k shutter count 4 years old 5DmarkII have all the rubbers and plastics intact, and the photographer next to me have his d800 with peals off in body, rubbers in the lens with duck tape. (dont have any experience with the quality of the sony bodys)
Canon are truly workhorses, My C100 avchd codec give me files that blow-me ! with just a 32gb 15$ SD card
I hope that the prices are more low, c100 mark II - 4000$ and C300 MarkII for 9000$...my dream...
Great forum !
Pedro
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Canon and Arri are the "professional" market leaders, at the low end and high end, respectively. And on their first product cycle. Their business strategy makes sense once you consider that there are people who would rather shoot and deliver to clients than argue about 4k on the internet.

Both shoot to conservatively-specced, but well-established codecs that fit easily into well-established workflows. When Canon failed to do this (C500; 1DC) they had their least successful products. Both focus on delivering an image that looks good rather than one that has the "flexibility" to be made to look good in post and instead just measures well (fwiw, the A7S doesn't have 15.3 stops of DR nor does the Dragon have 16+). Both release very few products and so far have only had one sensor in their entire line and a few established color spaces.

Sony has a host of sensors, codecs, unique color spaces (SLOG1, 2, and 3, for starters), as does Red... for a single owner/operator a Dragon might be a nice upgrade an an FS7 might be a nice upgrade, but for multi-cam material fitting these cameras into workflows is difficult.

Canon and Arri are making cameras for professionals. Sony and Panasonic and Red are making cameras for hobbyists... there is some cross-over (and hobbyists of course demand the better image quality because the standard is theirs' not their audiences') and Fincher and Soderbergh have the mindset of hobbyists always trying new things and very technically-oriented and groundbreaking with workflows (Cameron, too). But for bread and butter boring work... Canon and Arri are there.

For the mad artists out there (and for those who'd rather count pixels than tell stories) there's the rest. Never doubt your Canon cinema camera or your Alexa even if progress is slow and specs are poor. Red claims not to obsolete your product but how many body upgrades, sensor upgrades, processor upgrades, and software updates have they pushed in a few short years? The C300 you bought the day it was released will intercut with your C300 Mark II, have the same approximate color, and the same sensor. Although Canon will probably push 4k, tweak color a bit, etc. Arri, the true market leader, changes the least because it has no one to compete against except itself. The Alexa will cut fine with the SXT. That's a lack of obsolesce and, ironically, it's because a mature product advances slowest.
 
FrameFarmMedia said:
What an un-informed statement.

Red Epic
Panasonic Varicam35
Sony F5/55 (to some extent FS7 is every bit as 'pro' as C300)

Are very much professional cameras.
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Technically anything is professional if you make a living using it, but those three seem to fit worst into mature industry workflows on set and in post. The Varicam35 may be the exception. It looks excellent. Just untested.

I've used the Epic and F5/55 EXTENSIVELY...

WISH I NEVER HAD TO! Ugg... buggy firmware on set horrible workflows in post once you try to take them into the seven-figure production range. Unless you have the extra money to spend to make up for their shortcomings.

Now go along, you have some pixels to count and ugly skin tones/chroma clipping to ignore.

Lol... the correct spelling is "uninformed" by the way. Though in this case the correct word is "right." The irony, man, the irony....
 
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FrameFarmMedia said:
What an un-informed statement.

Red Epic
Panasonic Varicam35
Sony F5/55 (to some extent FS7 is every bit as 'pro' as C300)

Are very much professional cameras.
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Bahahaha! Yep...your totally right. For the original post, I am also an Arri and Canon advocate. My Cinema EOS cameras are great. Being a RED owner...I can definitely say it is a professional tool in every way. That is kind of a silly statement to imply that any of those companies don't make professional tools. They very much do, and are very much used on professional sets, by professionals. Not trying to rub your statement in your face. Just stating, kindly, it is a fact.

Policar, sounds like you had some bad experiences. The F-55 menus suck, and RED cams can have their firmware moments. That said, no camera is perfect. Both of those cameras are capable of delivering great results and are commonly used in professional environments. I think it was just the wording of your statement. Sounds like you just prefer Canon and Arri....which I totally get. I think Canon and Arri are solid, robust, cameras capable of creating consistently great images. Lets not downplay what RED and Sony are capable of though.
 
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I didn’t mean to start a s*%tstorm, just saying that the incremental upgrades and slow roll-out of new technologies is what keeps market leaders on top of a mature market, not what brings them down. As excited as shooters might get about 4k XAVC, post houses are groaning and wishing for 1080p prores. :)

I have had near-production-ending nightmares with the F5, less so with the Red but still BAD. Both platforms are a lot more mature now, but by the time they matured something new and immature already came out! These bleeding edge beta products are a lot easier to use on the hobby side when time isn’t money or on the mad scientist side (Fincher, etc.) when you have money to throw at every problem.

Not commenting on which produces a better image… just the mentality you get with each and the associated trade-offs. I do think Red finally got it right with the Dragon. After a few firmware upgrades... a few colorspace upgrades... still needs some ergonomic work... oh, and after the new OLPF... but still... it's a cool camera for sure. The F5 I loved it until I tried it, but the new SLOG 3 matrix with clamped saturation at 30 IRE or whatnot seems nice. Of course Wide DR on the Canon side (and even Canon Log) and Log C got this right long ago....
 
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