Canon announces new XF400/405 camcorders

R

Recept

New member
UHD 4k, 1.0-Type CMOS sensor, 15x zoom lens and Dual Pixel autofocus.
Difference between the two is that 405 comes with SDI.
Great camera, although to me it seems more like XA update not XF models.
 
the xf camera line was decent but i thought always a bit over-priced.

i shot with a xf300 for a while and liked the lens.

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions
 
Seems like the most direct competitors to the Canon XF400 and XF405 are the Panasonic HC-X1/UX180 and the Sony PXW-Z150. In that sense the XF400 and XF405 are priced pretty competitively. Both the Sony and Panasonic come in slightly larger bodies with dedicated zoom, iris, and focus rings (the XF400/405 seem to only have a single ring), but in terms of specifications there are a lot of similarities:

Canon XF400 ($2999) / XF405 ($3499)
  • 1-inch sensor
  • 15x zoom lens (f/2.8-4.5)
  • 2160p60 support (4:2:0 at 150Mbps)
  • 1080p60 (4:2:0 at 35Mbps)
  • 1080p120 for slow motion
  • Dual-pixel autofocus
  • HDMI 2.0 (2160p60) and 3G-SDI (1080p60 on XF405 only)
  • 2.5 lbs. (3.7 lbs with handle, battery, and hood)

Sony PXW-Z150 ($3299)
  • 1-inch sensor
  • 12x zoom lens (f/2.8-4.5)
  • 2160p30 support (4:2:0 at 100 Mbps)
  • 1080p60 (10-bit 4:2:2 at 50 Mbps)
  • 1080p120 for slow motion
  • Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) with Rec.2020 color space
  • HDMI 1.4 (2160p30) and 3G-SDI (1080p60) output
  • 4.2 lb (5.1 lb with battery and hood)

Panasonic HC-X1 ($3199) / UX180 ($3499)
  • 1-inch sensor
  • 20x zoom lens (f/2.8-4.5)
  • 2160p60 support (4:2:0 at 150Mbps)
  • DCI 4K 4096x2160 at 24p
  • 1080p60 (4:2:0 at 100 Mbps Long GOP or 200 Mbps All-Intra)
  • 1080p120 for slow motion
  • HDMI 2.0 (2160p60) and 3G-SDI (1080p60 on UX180 only)
  • 4.4 lb (5.3 lb with battery and lens hood)

Unfortunately none of the cameras have 10-bit 4:2:2 recording in Ultra HD (either internally or externally over HDMI). Maybe the manufacturers don't think that's an important feature for these types of camcorders?
 
Sorry, Dave, I accidentally tapped the unhelpful arrow on my iPad whilst reading your very helpful post above. Don't know how to undo the mistake!
 
davedv-

i wonder if the panasonic offerings with the longer zoom and higher bit rate might be a better value.

i'm not flaming.

i am simply asking/suggesting.

thanks for the chart.

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions
 
Glad to see more activity in this space. My ultimate goal is to have Panasonic make a P2 version of the 1" chip 4k video camera. This would be an upgrade/replacement for the PX-270. Seems like 1" is the new 1/3" when it comes to "video" cameras. The cameras listed are all nice but I would rather see the next level up in quality.
 
davedv said:
Unfortunately none of the cameras have 10-bit 4:2:2 recording in Ultra HD (either internally or externally over HDMI). Maybe the manufacturers don't think that's an important feature for these types of camcorders?
Click to expand...

According to Cinema5D, you at least have 8-bit 4:2:2 up to 25p externally in UHD. Not sure if true as new specs are initially sometimes messy on the internet, but it would make sense as everyone else offers at least 8-bit 4:2:2 over HDMI.

https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-announces-new-4k-50p-camcorders-canon-xf405-xf400/
 
I put my pre order in on this new camera. I currently film with a C100 mark 1 and have been wanting to get into 4k content with the same auto focus that my 7d mark ii has. I would love a C200 but the cost is prohibitive and my wife can barely figure out my C100 as it is.
We film custom content for clients around the world for web and computer delivery. Almost everything is shot hand held with studio lighting and with a shotgun mic.
I use the same lens every day and can't remember the last time it has come off the camera. As much as I love my C100, I just don't think I need it anymore since I am not shooting anything with shallow DOF anymore, nor filming broadcast quality. I really just want something that I can pick up and use, easy AF with 4k and this seems to check all the boxes.
I had been also thinking about the Canon XC15 - but the lack of handle, no wrist strap and 4k to CFast cards was holding me back.
How do you guys think the quality of the video (24p) will be compared to what I'm shooting with the C100?
 
The video quality will be nice but how nice? We will have to wait for the camera to see what it can do. I am always happy to see new cameras but I am unhappy that they are all showing up in the $3,500 range for this space. To me, $3,500 is a non-commit by the camera makers. It is squarely in the prosumer camp. Some appreciate it but I want a more refined image. At the $3,500 price point the cameras makers will hold back on image refinement, so it is a catch 22 imho. Every year the I-Phone gets better. We as image producers have to stay ahead or our market value gets more compromised for certain work. No doubt the image will be fine, just depends how picky you are!
 
iggy097 said:
I put my pre order in on this new camera. I currently film with a C100 mark 1 and have been wanting to get into 4k content with the same auto focus that my 7d mark ii has. I would love a C200 but the cost is prohibitive and my wife can barely figure out my C100 as it is.
We film custom content for clients around the world for web and computer delivery. Almost everything is shot hand held with studio lighting and with a shotgun mic.
I use the same lens every day and can't remember the last time it has come off the camera. As much as I love my C100, I just don't think I need it anymore since I am not shooting anything with shallow DOF anymore, nor filming broadcast quality. I really just want something that I can pick up and use, easy AF with 4k and this seems to check all the boxes.
I had been also thinking about the Canon XC15 - but the lack of handle, no wrist strap and 4k to CFast cards was holding me back.
How do you guys think the quality of the video (24p) will be compared to what I'm shooting with the C100?
Click to expand...

I love the idea of the X400, but these fixed lens consumer/prosumer cameras have always been held back by their image quality. It's dated; even in the $5K/$6K cameras.

We'll see how this new batch of 2017 Canon cameras looks, but I would hold on to your C100 for a bit. Also, keep in mind that the 5D Mark IV is around the same price and shoots much better 4K with the same DPAF technology.

But the X400 does sound like a great camera for what you do (with studio lighting, the camera having IS, one lens, etc).
 
NorBro said:
I love the idea of the X400, but these fixed lens consumer/prosumer cameras have always been held back by their image quality. It's dated; even in the $5K/$6K cameras.

We'll see how this new batch of 2017 Canon cameras looks, but I would hold on to your C100 for a bit. Also, keep in mind that the 5D Mark IV is around the same price and shoots much better 4K with the same DPAF technology.

But the X400 does sound like a great camera for what you do (with studio lighting, the camera having IS, one lens, etc).
Click to expand...

The issue with using a DSLR for what I do is trying to film for several hours straight and not have to stop for over heating. I can't rely on my 7d ii on it's own for the overheating shut off issue that has plagued DSLR since day 1.
Also XLR , Wave form, audio levels, running time, are all a must. I haven't used my DSLR for an A Cam for years - I couldn't imagine having to go back to that.
 
Regarding overheating, I once ran the IV in HD for 10 hours (only turned it off to change batteries) recording speeches (it has audio levels) and it never broke a sweat.

I never tried that in 4K, but the amount of media needed would be too much anyway.

I hope the XF400 has decent quality because it does look great.
 
Thanks - the last time I depended on a DSLR it overheated the moment the bride started to walk down the aisle. It was horrible and I almost had an anxiety attack!
 
If it's intended to be a successor to the XF-305, it's a total letdown... reduced zoom range, elimination of genlock and timecode, a paltry 4:2:0 color space, and looks like a toy in comparison. The autofocus system looks great, but I think that's about all this camera has going for it. If it's meant to be a successor to the XF-205 instead, then it's vastly overpriced for what it does.

There is absolutely a market for fixed lens cameras, and it's a completely different one than those who shoot narrative content. I'm glad we are still seeing development in this area. This whole new crop of cameras is really underwhelming, though. The Panasonic is the best of the bunch with its 20x zoom lens, but the lag out the SDI cripples it for its ability to shoot in live situations (what a good chunk of these kinds of cameras are used for).

We really need a true XF-305 replacement with a 1" chip, 20x lens, 4:2:2 recording, and proper genlock port. It's not a big ask - the 305 had all of these except the 1" 4K sensor. You'd think they could figure it out in 7 years time.
 
Haakon said:
We really need a true XF-305 replacement with a 1" chip, 20x lens, 4:2:2 recording, and proper genlock port. It's not a big ask - the 305 had all of these except the 1" 4K sensor. You'd think they could figure it out in 7 years time.
Click to expand...

Looking at Canon's website for the XF400 - it does list 4:2:2

Capture.jpg
 
Haakon said:
If it's intended to be a successor to the XF-305, it's a total letdown... reduced zoom range, elimination of genlock and timecode, a paltry 4:2:0 color space, and looks like a toy in comparison. The autofocus system looks great, but I think that's about all this camera has going for it. If it's meant to be a successor to the XF-205 instead, then it's vastly overpriced for what it does.

There is absolutely a market for fixed lens cameras, and it's a completely different one than those who shoot narrative content. I'm glad we are still seeing development in this area. This whole new crop of cameras is really underwhelming, though. The Panasonic is the best of the bunch with its 20x zoom lens, but the lag out the SDI cripples it for its ability to shoot in live situations (what a good chunk of these kinds of cameras are used for).

We really need a true XF-305 replacement with a 1" chip, 20x lens, 4:2:2 recording, and proper genlock port. It's not a big ask - the 305 had all of these except the 1" 4K sensor. You'd think they could figure it out in 7 years time.
Click to expand...

I agree, exactly my point from before. The makers never give anything away. So when I see a mid level price I know there will be compromises. Also, what is up with killing off 720p60? The Panasonic's don't even have it and this camera only has a proxy level bitrate. HEY, US brocasting is still at 720p60!! Some jobs you just want to film at the their intended resolution for a low storage footprint and DVD/Blu delivery. How hard is it to keep a decent bitrate 720p60 option? Who wants to film a multicamera event in 4k only to deliver in 720?
 
iggy097 said:
Looking at Canon's website for the XF400 - it does list 4:2:2
Click to expand...

There's a chart on Canon's site that shows all internal recording across the board at 4:2:0.

Then there's another one that shows 4:2:2 via HDMI and I figured it would be HD and at least 4K/24p/30p, but it looks like 4:2:2 only applies to HD.

Canon.jpg
 
Bassman2003 said:
Also, what is up with killing off 720p60? The Panasonic's don't even have it and this camera only has a proxy level bitrate. HEY, US brocasting is still at 720p60!! Some jobs you just want to film at the their intended resolution for a low storage footprint and DVD/Blu delivery. How hard is it to keep a decent bitrate 720p60 option? Who wants to film a multicamera event in 4k only to deliver in 720?
Click to expand...

It looks like it does include 720/60p (check out the camera's brochure).
 
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