Perry Wilson
Well-known member
whats up with the weird color line in the sky in that bunny footage around 2:30 watch the sky it has a clear line where the cam is changing the color of the sky... F that cam can't wait 7D ships friday...
Canon 7D - Meet the HMC40 in the Sreets, Where it Counts!!! Unless your scared!
- Thread starter Rakesh Jacob
- Start date
Jean Dantes
Well-known member
That's a crack in the Space-time continuum, a known phenomena related to the introduction of CMOS devices around bunnies. That's why there's the 5 meter rule. Gets worse around Easter.
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
OH NO!!! That's horrible, what if the bunnies go through that rift in the space-time continuum? We all know what bunnies do... some of those bunnies could end up being thier own grandchildren. That's a really f-ed up easter man!
Maury:
"Peter Cottontail... you are your father!"
i have tried shooting bunnies with a Gh1, a 7D, a D90 and a 5Dmk2.
none gave me the results i desired.
i found the old fashioned method of bludgeoning them with my trusty old PD170 to be far more satisfactory.
clearly the form factor of the traditional video camera helped.
who says DSLRs are the way forward?
none gave me the results i desired.
i found the old fashioned method of bludgeoning them with my trusty old PD170 to be far more satisfactory.
clearly the form factor of the traditional video camera helped.
who says DSLRs are the way forward?
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
LOL I'm glad I read that after I woke up and not before I went to sleep.
I have owners remorse, sorry. The remorse that comes with being associated with what may be a group of people that are worse than the RED Cult. There are a lot of RED owners that do not want to be associated with the Cult, as well. But, at least those guys accept the merit behind technical information and what it can do as far as educating the masses. It's that spirit that gets them updates from Graeme that redefine what the RED ONE is. It's because of the technically information people like Barry_Green offer that we get this kind of gear in the first place.
And yet, some people find it completely acceptable to ridicule, demean, devalue or post backhanded statements disguised as "good-natured humor" about what he's doing. Furthermore, most of these same people keep spouting the same tripe: it's about what's in front of the camera.
Well why aren't these people A) Putting all of their forum posts energy into writing and B) Out shooting narrative?
At least Barry's tests are productive and offer insight. I don't find any of this productive and see an opportunity for people to put their camera's where there eyes are and prove that it's not the tool but the talent; 'cause it sure isn't coming off that way.
Backlash begins here---
And yet, some people find it completely acceptable to ridicule, demean, devalue or post backhanded statements disguised as "good-natured humor" about what he's doing. Furthermore, most of these same people keep spouting the same tripe: it's about what's in front of the camera.
Well why aren't these people A) Putting all of their forum posts energy into writing and B) Out shooting narrative?
At least Barry's tests are productive and offer insight. I don't find any of this productive and see an opportunity for people to put their camera's where there eyes are and prove that it's not the tool but the talent; 'cause it sure isn't coming off that way.
Backlash begins here---
philiplipetz
Veteran
Say it like it is brother! I thought only newbies, like me, bought results, and that pros overcame whatever they used. Barry has produced a thread that finally visualizes the onboard computer deficiencies inherent in the current generation of hybrid combocams. When I first posted a thread about this I was attacked. OK, my fault was not doing exactly what Barry did. That is why he is the pro. Barry, you have done more to advance our understanding of this new technology than anyone else. Perhaps your two recent threads will show methods for quickly testing each new generation of combocams, before we have all spent our time and money discovering problems. Thank you, you have shown the light.
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Kegan
Spam Assassin Mod
I'm beginning to think that I'm happy I was able to put together a kit with stabilization, memory and power for the price BEFORE taxes of any of my older prosumer cameras. I realize there's faults and I'm accepting them, getting over them and already planning my shoots - in fact I'm using it tomorrow for a gig and have a documentary back in pre-production because of it.
Like it or dislike it - as many have said previously, use what you can afford, what limitations you can accept and don't look back. If that's not the 7D, then it just isn't. I find it ridiculously hard to believe that that Barry thread was over 40 pages! Come on people...
Tests are valid, yes but I mean are you all going to throw your camera out now? I agree with Kholi in the association department. Some of you are pretty ridiculous.
Kegan
Like it or dislike it - as many have said previously, use what you can afford, what limitations you can accept and don't look back. If that's not the 7D, then it just isn't. I find it ridiculously hard to believe that that Barry thread was over 40 pages! Come on people...
Tests are valid, yes but I mean are you all going to throw your camera out now? I agree with Kholi in the association department. Some of you are pretty ridiculous.
Kegan
Ian-T
Veteran
Yes Kholi, Barry’s test offer lots of insight. I am grateful that this all took place. I thought it was done in a fun way and had fun playing along. Some of us handled it well while some seemed to go off the deep end. I don’t think Barry went into this not expecting any of this to happen (at least I sure hope he didn’t). Me personally, I don’t “quite” have the funding to pick up this camera…which could very well be a blessing in disguise. My mind was made up and still is to get this camera…but who knows….something might pop up before I officially make that move. But in the mean time it’s fun to see something like these tests and watch reaction from both sides of the coin. You learn a lot about the tools…and about people who use them.
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
:thumbsup:
I have other opinions I'll keep to myself but yeah this pretty much sums it up for this thread.
And this is a forum where you can go back and see OTHER's reactions to like criticism of OTHER cameras... people should back track and check thier stance or it may look like they have a HUGE bias, wouldn't want that to happen :embarasse
then i watched the Perya and Dublin's People 7D videos on my PS3 viewed on my Panasonic Viera 42" 1080p Plasma and i was ecstatic again! 
Eddy Robinson
Well-known member
FLAME WAR!!! :violent5:
Well really, there was only one or two angry objectors to Barry's 3-way test, and you must admit Barry himself spun that thread out for extended laughs.
I think the angst over the res chart and sharpness comes from the fact that while it's a technical problem (ie depending on the manner in which the 7D does pixel-binning) it's not something that can be adjusted for technically - eg, if the camera clipped highlights consistently then you could say 'OK, don't use a lens faster than xx, or always shoot with an ND filter or...' It's a drag to realize your camera has problems with a particular kind of subject matter and there's a part of the brain that refuses to believe in something so arbitrary, as if you could shoot puppies but not kittens.
Or bunnies :happy:
There is one really valid point to be drawn from the multiple videos in the OP, and it's this: the lens and sensor of the HMC40, while plenty sharp compared to the 7d video, are limited in the focus options they offer, and all of Johnny's examples are very video-like. This is as much to do with the operators as the camera, , but the point is that these kinds of shots are not the reason for buying a 7d.
The good news (from my POV) is that the 7d's deficiencies, like those of the GH1, are mainly on wide shots with lots of detail...and those can be circumvented either by clever use of stills with or without burst mode (eg for your epic establishing shots of the landscape) or with a very affordable consumer camcorder like the HV series, or at worst by renting/borrowing a prosumer HD camcorder for the day. In fact the HMC40 + 7D would be a really killer combination, but since many of us can only afford to buy one of those cameras, people are anxious for confirmation that they've made the right choice about a fairly large purchase.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Love the 7D, at its price point, and don't think it's something it's not. It is a fantastic value at its price point.
Ian-T
Veteran
I wonder why folks keep saying to avoid wide shots with this cam. I’ve seen plenty of video with beautiful wide shots with the 5D and even recently with this cam. For example while not landscape shots you can see some pretty wide shots of government buildings in this piece by Luis Caffesse: http://vimeo.com/7020695 (in 720p mind you). I thought they looked great. Does that caveat have anything to do with the problems of aliasing and moire?
ydgmdlu
Veteran
The problem is that we're looking at 100% crops here. Sure, the video quality could be much improved, but when you scale the image down to fit a more reasonable field of view on your little computer monitor, it won't look nearly so bad. And that's a big part of why the Vimeo videos look so good.
Kholi wishes he'd bought two.
No longer regretting that. About to pick up another one in a a few hours and next week one with a kit lens to add to the litter. =]
And, when the next camera comes out I'll dump them all and move to that.
Eddy Robinson
Well-known member
Well, I didn't mean to overstate things! What I'm getting at is that wide shots where you'd want deep focus (eg establishing shots) are the kind where the limitations of these cameras are more apparent. Aliasing could also occur with patterned fabrics in wardrobe and so on, but for narrative filmmaking you can control that more easily.
One example would be the detail on the trees in Barry's test, or a recent DVXuser member video shot in a park where the GH1 codec couldn't keep up with the leafy trees in the background. Another context might be an indoor scene with venetian blinds. On a medium or closeup shot you could easily throw the background out of focus, but when you're establishing the location those blinds might create some distracting artifacts in the background, especially if you are moving the camera.
So it's not so much that you should avoid such shots, but that you should be on the lookout for potential trouble spots - just as you need to if you're a sound guy; I always dread scenes set in restaurants, bars, or stores because most people don't appreciate just how noisy those industrial refrigerators can be, and while they can be switched off you have to bear in mind the implications for food safety and spoilage. But if they're not switched off, then your dialog can sound terrible.
Of course, a huge advantage of something like the 7d is that it's small and unintimidating, so when you visit a location for the first time you can just shoot some footage of it and find out for yourself if it will work. After a while you'll get used to this and spot potential trouble as soon as you arrive.