Canon 60d with Cinema Lenses vs Red Epic / Red Mx = Doing a Project

V

vision_filmz

Carbonite Member
I have a great opportunity to shoot a project for a record label and can shoot it on red or My personally 60d and rent out the Zeiss Cine set that come an Ef mount. The main concern for the label is they want the best "visual" quality possible.

My concern is I have never really shot on a red before professionally , but have done well over 40+ Music videos with Dslr camera for many artists ( low budget to descent mid budget )

I personally like the ease of using a Dslr and how all support equipment can be used very easily. Working with a Red 1 or Epic I know we would have to use different tripods and all kind of other systems + then deal with the workflow. In my mind I know I could shoot the project on a Red or any camera for that matter, I am just really really knowledgable of my dslr though.

Opinions/ thoughts?
 
I'm really interested in reading the answers to this question... and how those answers would differ if you asked on a RED subforum on dvxuser, if there was one (I guess closes thing is the "new guys" subforum, where the link to reduser is placed)
 
vision_filmz said:
I have a great opportunity to shoot a project for a record label

The main concern for the label is they want the best "visual" quality possible.

My concern is I have never really shot on a red before professionally
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Shoot Red.
I have a 60D and a 5D, and easy access to 5 EX3s, but if the client is thinking Red I'd go Red.
Behind your back Red shooters will rip you a new one for anything less. People in the record
industry are ruthless and will say anything to get the client away from you if they can.
Hire an A/C who has a lot of experience with Red or possible an owner operator with
a reel shooting projects like your assignment. This should make the day go smoothly and take the
pressure off your back to concentrate on direction and creativity.
This is the most likely scenario the record label will hire you back on the next project.
Serious clients want serious treatment. Remember you are protecting your clients reputation too.
 
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No disrespect to rockmore, but I don't think the op said the client asked for red, but the best possible visual imagery possible, so this can be subjective to say the least. I have seen crap shot on red BY shooters who had no real skill level vs. some really gifted canon owners who had a great since for lighting and composition. However I do think for certain the red will offer a better image but as we have seen lately, it's no longer about the camera but about the person behind it. If you are comfortable with the 60d, i would invest budget in lighting and other essentials that will bring you a higher production value than just the camera. Again, the gap is just about closed and there are record labels requesting canon. who would of ever thought the industry would come to this.
 
Thanks for the replies, also Rockmore game a great one and his post did actually relate to my question. Personally I would be handling the treatment, direction, creativity , etc. I like to try different camera angles
and bring very good energy out of people. I'm just an up coming Man with a vision & love for this art. No where close to where I want to be, but I have been giving some nice opportunities lately.
Also I forgot to mention that I will edit the project as well as I am an editor ( what I really started off as ).


I have seen a lot of great projects shot an Af100, Fs100 , etc. Even the nicest project I have seen shot on Canon dslr never really looked that amazing technically imo. Sure closeups look great, but wide shots and getting a lot of detail in the image is something I feel that can not really be achieved with a Canon dslr. We might shoot Red probably even an epic. Would just have to figure out the work flow. Also I know you can shoot raw in Red and was told that you can almost switch anything around while editing?

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do.

ps. I love my Canon dslrs and feel it is the future, but as of now it does have some limitations.
 
Shoot with RED EPIC if you can. Its still much heavier than a DSLR, but you'll probably like the size and form factor much better than the MX if you're used to shooting DSLR. The IQ is so much higher, yoiu have the ability to overcrank, and with 5k you can take liberties with framing/composition in post. It's always good to challenge yourself and use new gear, you'll gain invalubale experience as well.
 
Whats wrong with an F3? May be easier in post if your not used to red's workflow. Not to mention it kills in low light and latitude. Although if you need 5k, then it won't do.
 
My main issue that no one has yet addressed is that he's comfortable with the Canon DSLRs and has never shot RED professionally. This can be a HUGE undertaking and one I wouldn't be willing to do unless I was 100% comfortable with the RED. They want the best visual imagery but have hired you based on your reel I assume. If they haven't specifically asked for RED, I'd shoot with what you're comfortable with and what you know.

To disappoint a big client by fumbling around on set? Eh, not really the best approach. If you can rent the camera for a few days beforehand (which is obviously not very cost effective) and have a good grasp on the workflow and using the camera, I say go for it! If you can't? Stick with what you know for this one.

Kegan
 
reem12 said:
I don't think the op said the client asked for red
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I'm speculating what the client will be thinking about the OP. In their world you are what you eat. Are you a steak or are you a burger? I know this may sound like B.S., but it unfortunately true and a big part of the business game. Actually the way I always approach the client and equipment is on a cost basis. They are paying for everything anyway so they can have a Red with Zeiss lenses for 2 grand, or they can use my 60D and 5D as part of my personal package comp. They will will usually take the comp camera these days and at the same time will lower themselves to a burger instead of the OP.
 
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Kegan said:
My main issue that no one has yet addressed is that he's comfortable with the Canon DSLRs and has never shot RED professionally. This can be a HUGE undertaking and one I wouldn't be willing to do unless I was 100% comfortable with the RED. They want the best visual imagery but have hired you based on your reel I assume. If they haven't specifically asked for RED, I'd shoot with what you're comfortable with and what you know.

To disappoint a big client by fumbling around on set? Eh, not really the best approach. If you can rent the camera for a few days beforehand (which is obviously not very cost effective) and have a good grasp on the workflow and using the camera, I say go for it! If you can't? Stick with what you know for this one.

Kegan
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Good post, but obviously someone who has had projects shot on a higher resolution camera can tell the difference between Red footage and Dslr. They want a better camera, but want me to handle the project..... Secondly I like Creative Media's post, challenge yourself, never look back and stand triumphant. Not going to be easy, but I never shot on many cameras before and was able to get great images always using them. Dvx, Canon xha 1, Hvx-150, Hpx-500, etc. I know someone who had access to a Red Epic and honestly it felt the same like every other camera and seemed pretty easy to shoot.

The only thing I really do not know is the whole process of "Raw" editing and what is it that can be truly done while editing. Regardless thank you everyone for the comments and please continue to post your feedback

Thanks
 
vision_filmz said:
Good post, but obviously someone who has had projects shot on a higher resolution camera can tell the difference between Red footage and Dslr. They want a better camera, but want me to handle the project..... Secondly I like Creative Media's post, challenge yourself, never look back and stand triumphant. Not going to be easy, but I never shot on many cameras before and was able to get great images always using them. Dvx, Canon xha 1, Hvx-150, Hpx-500, etc. I know someone who had access to a Red Epic and honestly it felt the same like every other camera and seemed pretty easy to shoot.

The only thing I really do not know is the whole process of "Raw" editing and what is it that can be truly done while editing. Regardless thank you everyone for the comments and please continue to post your feedback

Thanks
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We used RED on a paid shoot but did as suggested above; we rented the camera and paid extra for the operator. He spent time with our camera guy helping him get comfortable but took over when time started to get tight. I

It was also our first edit with RED and that was a learning experience. Not hard, just a different process.
 
You always have to start somewhere, but security is one of the most important thing, miss it and your are doomed. So either you get to use it before hand to see about it use and mostly the workflow (size and use of red raw) or get something intermediary like the Sony F3, where it will already get a big boost in quality and a workflow much closer to what you are used to.
 
ROCKMORE said:
Shoot Red.
I have a 60D and a 5D, and easy access to 5 EX3s, but if the client is thinking Red I'd go Red.
Behind your back Red shooters will rip you a new one for anything less. People in the record
industry are ruthless and will say anything to get the client away from you if they can.
Hire an A/C who has a lot of experience with Red or possible an owner operator with
a reel shooting projects like your assignment. This should make the day go smoothly and take the
pressure off your back to concentrate on direction and creativity.
This is the most likely scenario the record label will hire you back on the next project.
Serious clients want serious treatment. Remember you are protecting your clients reputation too
2.jpg
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I agree completely with ^^^
When my uncle did stuff with RED, it was much more simpler politically wise. if that made any sense...
:Drogar-KnockedOut(D
 
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