Canon 60D Run and Gun Setup...

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BluepointVance

New member
I'm trying to put together a kind of Run and Gun setup for my Canon 60D. I'm going to be shooting in documentary type settings, probably in a lot of low light situations. Overall video and sound quality will be far from perfect, but I'd like to do what I can... Right now all I have is the camera and one lens (Sigma 17-50 f2.8). Money is, as always, an object. But I do realize none of this comes cheap.

So, I wanted to ask what people might recommend for me.

A good lens for this? Was Looking at the Sigma 30 f1.4 (http://www.kenrockwell.com/sigma/30mm-f14.htm) manly because it's fast and sort of wide. I'd love wider, but it's hard to find Fast and Wide in one lens. Also considering the Canon 28 f1.8 (http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/28mm-f18.htm) slightly slower, very slightly wider. Any other suggestions? A vintage lens, maybe?

A rig? I've been looking for something small (very important to me), light weight and relatively versatile. Thinking maybe the Express35 Run N' Gun TRIO (http://express35.com/rigs/run-n-gun-trio/) Collapsible. Seems like I can use it with shoulder mount or take the shoulder mount off and hand hold fig-rig style. I'd probably add the d-focus V3 follow focus (http://express35.com/accesories/follow-focus/follow-focus-2/) to this setup also. Any other recommendations? I'm going to check out an actual fig rig next week -- not really sure how to get a follow focus on that.

Audio? I've been looking at the JuicedLink DS214 (http://www.juicedlink.com/audio-preamps-mixers-etc-c-66/ds214) with a Rode Videomic Pro (http://www.rodemic.com/mics/videomicpro). This is the part I'm most worried about. I'd really, really like to be able to use the 60D itself to record audio. I've watched a few videos of various setups with the 60d. The general consensus is that it's best to set the internal gain very low (one notch above nothing) and then send in a hot, pre-amped Mic signal... Actually, the general consensus seems to be give up on the 60D audio and record externally. But this is Run and Gun, baby! Again, advice? Anyone using the internal recording on a 60D? How do you work this? How does it sound?

Any advice with any of this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
I'd look into a friction focus instead of the d-focus. Let's say you do want to carry that one extra lens, it's annoying to put on different lens gears (unless you use the zacuto zip gear thingy on each lens). But friction focus seems like a quick cheap option
 
How are you liking the Sigma 17-50 f2.8?

I really haven't heard much about it since most recommend the Tamron.
 
bronxjragon said:
I'd look into a friction focus instead of the d-focus. Let's say you do want to carry that one extra lens, it's annoying to put on different lens gears (unless you use the zacuto zip gear thingy on each lens). But friction focus seems like a quick cheap option
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I could only find a few friction focus setups. The IndiFOCUS zoom and the Ikan F3. I'll take a look at them. Thanks.


Zxander34 said:
How are you liking the Sigma 17-50 f2.8?

I really haven't heard much about it since most recommend the Tamron.
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I really like it.

Unfortunately, I haven't used the Canon or Tamron equivalents -- so I can't compare them for you. But the Sigma copy I got is sharp and fairly well built. I mainly got it to shoot stills, and I thought the IS would come in handy. Plus I'd read in a few places that the Tamron with IS is less sharp than it's non-IS cousin.

The Sigma does have a very short focus rotation. I think it's about half the distance of the Canon 17-55... Not sure how that will play out for follow focus.
 
Run and gun situations you need a zoom lens. Also no way in the world you will be able to focus at anything faster than f/2.0 run and gun. I think you need to let us know what you are shooting so we can give our full opinion. As of now though your constant zoom at f/2.8 is a great lens for run and gun. If all I did was run and gun work I might even look into a Canon t3i as the zoom function alone can get a shot you couldn't get other wise. Finally I treat this camera more as in the real of digital cinema where you need to properly light and setup your shots to get the best results.
 
vision_filmz said:
Run and gun situations you need a zoom lens. Also no way in the world you will be able to focus at anything faster than f/2.0 run and gun. I think you need to let us know what you are shooting so we can give our full opinion. As of now though your constant zoom at f/2.8 is a great lens for run and gun. If all I did was run and gun work I might even look into a Canon t3i as the zoom function alone can get a shot you couldn't get other wise. Finally I treat this camera more as in the real of digital cinema where you need to properly light and setup your shots to get the best results.
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Good point. Thanks. Wasn't really thinking about the difficulty focusing when the depth of field is so shallow (f1.8 and lower)... I ended up with a 60D so I could also use it for properly lit and setup shots, like you mention. I'm just going to be documenting some interviews and ride alongs at night where I'm not totally sure what I'll be shooting. I realize a traditional video camera might handle this kinda stuff better, but wanted to try and expand my 60D setup to handle it as best I could for now.
 
Run and Gun doesn't preclude a Sound Mixer. When you get calls to shoot a project it's assumed they have already hired (or will hire) a sound guy. After all, no sound guy, no sound. You do picture, you don't have to worry about the sound.
 
adanac said:
Run and Gun doesn't preclude a Sound Mixer. When you get calls to shoot a project it's assumed they have already hired (or will hire) a sound guy. After all, no sound guy, no sound. You do picture, you don't have to worry about the sound.
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Got it. But in this case, I'm a one man show. I'm not working for anyone else. This is all for my own project. So I need to be doing sound.

Basically I'm looking for it to sound "good enough", I guess... I'm just wondering if something like the JuicedLink DS214 going straight into the 60D would do it for me... I mentioned using a rode videomic... I could probably also go with wireless lavs depending on the situation. But I really don't know what wireless setups people are liking these days.

Any suggestions, comments on the sound side of this would be great. Thanks!
 
About your lens choice:

If you prefer prime, you'll need at least 2 so that you can have footage with a different look to inter cut with in post. Personally, I think it's okay to not use a zoom lens. But having just 1 prime is not going to work well, unless you know exactly what you are doing. If money is an issue, I'd rather give up a shoulder rig (or use a much cheaper one or a video monopod or whatever else may work) in order to finance a second lens (either prime or zoom).


About your audio choice:

BluepointVance said:
Basically I'm looking for it to sound "good enough", I guess... I'm just wondering if something like the JuicedLink DS214 going straight into the 60D would do it for me... I mentioned using a rode videomic... I could probably also go with wireless lavs depending on the situation. But I really don't know what wireless setups people are liking these days.
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I think it's okay to do everything yourself. So no sound person. But I'd rather use a decent (not just okay/good) audio recorder, than a device that is not much more than an adapter. You'll add some weight anyway, if you want good/decent (not just okay) audio. Why not an audio recorder?! It will give you tons of extra options than some extra weight tethered to a camera. With a right recorder, you can do this:

mic (mic in) -> audio recorder (line/mic out) -> camera.

It won't slow you down, but you get a clean copy of all the audio, regardless whether or not you are not rolling your camera. Of course, your audio will not be limited to 12 minutes long either.

Yes, I agree Rode Videomic Pro is your bet mic.
 
vision_filmz said:
Run and gun situations you need a zoom lens. Also no way in the world you will be able to focus at anything faster than f/2.0 run and gun.
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Not always possible, but the extra option with a faster lens means you can shoot up to f1.4 or f1.2 whenever there is an opportunity coming up for you to manually "lock" your focus for a few seconds. Also, shooting in (very) low light, f1.2 or f1.4 are usable if you can get a clean steady shot or want a wide shot.
 
for run and gun situations. you dont have time to dick around with lavs. now that doesnt mean you shouldnt at least have ONE and a way to connect it. but you NEED a good shotgun directly into the camera. AND you need something YOU CAN MONITOR. nothing worse than getting home with awesome footage only to find your audio is more or less unusable : (

youve said that "good enough" is fine audio wise (i disagree. but thats another discussion) so a 60D with magic lantern and a rode video mic will probably be fine for you.
 
wgzn said:
for run and gun situations. you dont have time to dick around with lavs. now that doesnt mean you shouldnt at least have ONE and a way to connect it. but you NEED a good shotgun directly into the camera. AND you need something YOU CAN MONITOR. nothing worse than getting home with awesome footage only to find your audio is more or less unusable : (

youve said that "good enough" is fine audio wise (i disagree. but thats another discussion) so a 60D with magic lantern and a rode video mic will probably be fine for you.
Click to expand...

Just make sure the Video Mic is the PRO version (with the +20db gain on mic), and run Magic Lantern to turn all gains to zero. The audio can then be monitored directly in camera using the AV out cable, and is more than "good enough" for most situations.
 
Based on everything here, I think I'm gonna take some baby steps with the audio. I'll start with a g3 lav or the VideoMic Pro. Go straight into the camera and use magic lantern... See how that works for me. And if it's a problem, I'll get an external recorder like the H4N. Seems like I might be better off skipping the JuicedLink for now.

I'll keep looking for primes and stick with the zoom for a bit. A 30mm seems like a good fit with an aps-c sensor camera... So I'll look into one of those... And perhaps something longer in case I end up wanting more locked off, interview type shots. An 85mm maybe?

Thanks for all the replies, it really helps to hear everyone's opinions on this stuff.

I guess my last real worry is what to do about stabilization... Has anyone here used the express35 rigs? Have only been able to find a single review on the Run N Gun Trio.
 
I use the H4n with the 60D and usually record to both the H4n and the 60D. The H4n doesn't have the quiestest pre in the world (but way better than some of the reviews I've seen online), but I've gotten pretty good results by 1) setting the H4n to about 55 as the output volume, 2) setting the 60D to one click above off with the pre (the Canon preamp otherwise garbage unless you're using the internal 60D mic), and 3) setting the gain on the H4n to the appropriate level using the 60D meter for reference, giving yourself about 12db of space from clipping. This way you'll get quality audio directly to the 60D and have even better backup audio on the H4n drive. I'm sure the JuicedLink or similar will yield the best overall results and give you a slightly quieter signal, but the H4n is cheaper and you get a 24/48 portable 4-track recorder as well. Keep in mind, the HUGE drawback is that you can't monitor levels on the 60D directly while shooting, nor the audio output to either device if you're using the headphone out on the H4n to run to the 60D, so for run and gun it's a bit risky, and the H4n mounted to the hot shoe is a bit awkward.
 
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