Canon 5D vs. Panasonic GH1 ??

G

George D.

Well-known member
I'd be very interested to know if anyone has actually shot video with BOTH the Canon 5D "and" the Panasonic GH1.

If so, what is your opinion on the overall results in video quality, and in audio quality with an external recorder ??

Which camera do you feel gives the BEST quality 1080p HD video in all respects ??

Thanks.
 
I have shot pretty extensively on both. I feel that the GH1 gives a better quality image that is a little bit richer in color, sharpness, etc. The 5D is just too damn soft at most apertures. However it gets a bit better dynamic range, and sometimes can look really excellent. I also have found the aliasing and moire on the 5D to be a pain in the ass. I kind of feel like the GH1 (especially with the new firmware hack) is a camera you can take anywhere and film anywhere, whereas the 5D requires more controlled situations, because of the moire and the overheating, and the fact that in order to really use the damn thing you need to be using a monitor or at the very least a magnifying finder. The GH1 performs a lot more like a video camera...live histogram, viewfinder, flip out LCD, videocameraesque white balance and on screen controls. I am happy with the image I've gotten out of the 5D, you just have to jump through some more hoops to get it, and have to be careful to avoid the moire, etc. I feel like the theoretical best image you can get out of either camera might be better on the 5D, but on average your footage is gonna be better on the GH1. It takes a massive crew and tens-of-thousands of dollars in support equipment to reach the 5D's peak in certain situations...you can reach the GH1's peak with just you and the camera, in almost all situations...it's just that that peak is a little lower.

I had a project where to get 30 pages of script done in 3 days we shot on two 5Ds simultaneously...I was pretty happy with the images we got out, except for the softness in some places, the moire (which for the most part we were able to remove in post with a lot of work, at least the color contamination, though there is still some cringe inducing moire and aliasing in there just no color contamination) and the colors....I really am not a fan of the colors from that camera...regardless of profile. They're very flat and icky even after color correction, and skin tones tend to blend into walls.


Here is a video a friend and I did on the 5D, GH1, and HVX, back when the 5D only shot 30p (overcranked to 24p here) and shooting 720p on the GH1 (with a pre-firmware hack codec.)

Some of the 5D shots are really great compared to some of the other work...mainly because my friend who is a much more talented DP than I, was shooting on the 5D for most of the time ;)

 
I've shot with both. The GH1 is a lot muddier in terms of image quality. The 5D Mark II is exactly what you pay for: sharp, great contrast and saturation.
 
Anthonyb said:
I've shot with both. The GH1 is a lot muddier in terms of image quality. The 5D Mark II is exactly what you pay for: sharp, great contrast and saturation.
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An unmodified GH1 could indeed suffer from muddy images under some circumstances. A modified GH1 (GH13) is sharper and crisper in all scenarios, and is easily a match for if not besting the 5D in terms of sharpness.
 
It's hard to say which is sharper from these tests..they don't say much as too how the test was performed. In regards to the Cowpunk's frame grabs... Aside from the fact that different lenses where used at different apertures and that could account for difference in sharpeness the following questions come to mind:

Were both cameras on a tripod or is there a chance that motion blur was a factor?

Where the 100% crops taken from the center of the image from both cameras? Lenses aren't as sharp towards the edges and the fact that the GH1 doesn't have a FF sensor means the best area of the lens is being used.

Was sharpness turned all the way down for both cameras when the footage was shot?

You also have to consider that it's cheaper to and easier to produce a sharp lens for a smaller sensor. The trade off of larger sensors is the need for better quality lenses. When we were shooting with 1/3" CCDs lens sharpness wasn't even a consideration to most. When proper lenses are used properly the 5D is very sharp..much sharper than these results.

When comparing the two something else to consider is that lenses made for smaller sensors are more suseptible to diffraction since the diffraction limit is lower.

I agree that the 5D has the potential of being better but it has be used properly (not saying you didn't use it properly or run your tests properly cowpunk, just had sharper results myself)
 
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The reason the 5D looks like it does is because of moire/aliasing. Pretty much doesn't matter how you slice it, it's weak in that area and will always be until someone fixes it.

The GH1's lower exhibition of the same problem means more perceived or resolved ACTUAL detail.

It resolves more lines on a chart and in real situations.

Diffraction is actually BETTER for Moire and Aliasing, so that's no excuse.

5D Pro:
- Larger Sensor exhibits greater Latitude in recorded images
- Easier to achieved wider shots due to larger sensor
- Easier to shoot with a fine focal plane

5D Cons:
- Aliasing/moire to all hell
- Overheats
- Super Jello

GH1 Pro
- Swivel LCD
- Incredible Compression (w/Hack)
- 4:2:2 Color Space option (w/hack)
- MUCH less Aliasing/Moire than Canons
- 720/60
- Adapt just about any glass without shredding camera

GH1 Con
- Latitude leaves something to be desired.
- Need to purchase fast glass for wide end (hard to do)
- No video out (hack will bring this)


Choose your poison, choose your price. Neither's BETTER because they're both limited.
 
George ... you should have stayed with the EX3 for your bugs videos. Either of these cameras is going to give you some sort of grief along the line and that's not including sound woes. No video monitor out and hack a must for the GH1 ... Aliasing madness with the 5D and 7D. And I love DSLR's

Do yourself a favour and chase that delivery truck. Get your returned EX3 back:2vrolijk_08:
 
egproductions said:
It's hard to say which is sharper from these tests..they don't say much as too how the test was performed.
Click to expand...
First comparison shot:
"GH1 w/ Lumix 7-14mm f4 shot @ 14mm, f/11, 1/80
5D mark II w/ 24-105mm f4 L shot @ 24mm, f/11, 1/80 (levels boosted in post because it was way darker than GH1 shot)"

Second comparison shot:
"GH1 w/ Canon FD 50mm f1.8 shot @ 50mm, f/4, ???? (forgot shutter speed for these)
5D mark II w/ 24-105mm f4 L shot @ approx 90mm, f/4, ????"
I do remember shutter speed was somewhere around 1/1000 for the GH1 & 1/250 for 5DII

egproductions said:
In regards to the Cowpunk's frame grabs... Aside from the fact that different lenses where used at different apertures and that could account for difference in sharpeness the following questions come to mind:
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Different lenses, yes, but each comparison was shot at the same aperture on each camera. I wanted equivalent field of view for each camera. All lenses used were top quality for their respective mounts.

egproductions said:
Were both cameras on a tripod or is there a chance that motion blur was a factor?
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Both were on a tripod within inches from each other, recordings took at the exact same time. Also, high shutter speeds were used so that motion blur would not be a factor.

egproductions said:
Where the 100% crops taken from the center of the image from both cameras?
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Yes

egproductions said:
Was sharpness turned all the way down for both cameras when the footage was shot?
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Sharpness was set at middle for both cameras. 5DII used Faithful, -2 contrast, middle everything else. GH1 used smooth, -2 contrast, middle everything else

egproductions said:
When proper lenses are used properly the 5D is very sharp..much sharper than these results.
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The Canon 24-105mm f4 L is one of the sharpest lenses in Canon's lineup: link

egproductions said:
When comparing the two something else to consider is that lenses made for smaller sensors are more suseptible to diffraction since the diffraction limit is lower.
Click to expand...
Note that the first comparison is shot at f/11.
 
JoeJITSU said:
This has a Mark II and just did the hack to his GH1.
http://www.vimeo.com/12612429
And this guy just shot with a hacked GH1 as well. Im blown away.http://www.vimeo.com/12606679
Click to expand...

I don't know why but the GH-1 still seems like it shows jello-y/shaky images (notable instance at 0:23), I never get that with my 5D. As far as the still comparison, you can always color correct 5D images in post, thats not really a deal breaker for me. With the full frame and the access to all canon lenses, i think i will stay with 5D.

And who knows Canon or magic lantern or who-ever else might come up with new firmware hacks for the 5D...
 
tackleqb said:
I don't know why but the GH-1 still seems like it shows jello-y/shaky images
Click to expand...

The firmware hack does nothing about rolling shutter. That's a sensor issue; however, the GH1 does exhibit less rolling shutter than the 5DII does in equivalent situations
 
cow punk, like I said just having the settings doesn't say much about how the test was performed.

1/80th is not considered a fast shutter speed. Granted its fast enough to take a good picture at 24mm but there is still a chance of motion blur.

the 24-105 is not nearly one of the sharpest lenses Canon makes. If you want to use a sharp lens use any of Canons 50mm or 100mm primes. most other lenses will limit the full frame sensor.

The fact the sharpness was set to the middle on both cameras should rule out the test results. That sharpness that is applied is post sensor sharpness.

f11 is actually a good test if it were the same or equavelent lens that doesn't limit the sensor. Diffraction only starts being a issue beyond f16 on a cropped sensor at HD resolution.

Kholi, moire and aliasing have nothing to do with the image looking soft as per cowpunks results. I agree its def a noticeable issue that the gh1 has an edge on. Diffraction will help moire and aliasing but it make your image softer. Thats why moire is a give and take issue. You can lower the sharpness and put on a soft filter to alliviate it but you are sacrificing overall sharpness.
 
it was never meant to be a scientific comparison - I was only looking at how the cams would perform for me in real shooting situations with equivalent settings. Discount it, call it worthless, whatever makes you feel better. The 5dII does not resolve any more detail in it's video mode than what you're seeing right there. It is most definitely not sharper than the gh1 regardless of lens used (and I did test with a 50mm lens stoped down to 5.6, but never posted it. If you don't believe me, find somebody with a gh1 and go try it out for yourself. GH1 video looks more detailed, even if all sharpening is turned off, and it doesn't have the colored moire mess that the 5d II has. You can nit-pick about my test and deny the results all you want, but them's tha facts.

and you did see how the 2nd comparison was shot @ 1/250, right?
 
I had the 24-105L at the same time as the 24-70L, 70-200 f2.8L IS and some well known primes, e.g. 24L, 35L, 85L & 135L. I can say without a shadow of doubt that the 24-105L was the softest of all of them by a very long way. Having tried 3 copies I sold them all.
 
I don't see how it's softness could be a problem, it's sharpness on the charts exceeds what the 5D can effectively capture in all regards, it's able to capture more detail than the 5D is even capable of in video mode.

So I don't see why putting a sharper lens on the 5D would help it all that much more in video mode. Maybe for stills, but I don't see how it helps for 1080P video.

They are both great cameras, for low-light the 5D's giant sensor is still really really handy, while the GH1 seems to be capable of a more stable image thanks to it's smaller sensor (meaning less jello), and it's better down-sampling method, and currently lower-compression and higher bitrates than the 5D is capable of.

GH1 can do more resolvable detail in video mode thanks to the higher bitrate, and better downsampling method, while the 5D still produces a fantastic image the GH1 as far as the testing is telling me, is currently capable of more.
 
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