Canon 1DX Mark III

[yoclay]

Having been a fashion photographer for 20 years and a video/film guy now for 14 years, one thing I have learned is that not only is it difficult to do both at the same time, but it is often difficult on the same day. One of the reasons is that the talent usually behaves in a completely different way in front of a stills camera vs a video one. Switching back and forth too quickly is often very difficult for them. So as a result, while I may use the same camera, I might do half a day of photo and then the other half in video. Usually in that order, in order to at least know the angles which are best for the video portion later. If I can of course.

A lot of clients or situations don't allow for that luxury (particularly if it is revolving door with several people), but it really is two different mindsets...and not just for me. The way people move is just completely different, so trying to shoot both at the same time, frankly just doesn't yield the best results.

I have also tried pulling stills from high res video (RED 8k) and the only thing I can say is that after destroying my eyes in front of a computer for the next 4 days sorting through it all, looking for the right still, I will not try that exercise again soon.

One of the things I do like about the X-T3 is that it is one of the first cameras I have found which provides both quality stills and video from the same camera. It is not often when both are on par. This new 1DX will undoubtedly offer that too, but frankly it is just too big for me as a stills camera. In video I have support equipment, but going handheld with a 24-70 for stills...nah.

 

[DLD]

... Have you seen that resolution stated as fact? I'm guessing 24-28 MP myself. But there is nothing saying the 1Dx mkIII will shoot full frame, and I wouldn't expect that. For Canon Raw Light it's a given that it won't, and even for non raw recording I think Canon sticks to 1:1 pixel readout. It's been of good quality, but comes with a crop...

Considering that S1/H and Z6 have a 24 MPX full sensor readout, it is certainly feasible for a modern sub-$2,500 camera to have it. A much higher pixel count A7R II, III and IV have a full sensor line skipping and an APS-C crop readouts. Canon has, however, chosen to only offer a center crop. In other words, the tech is there. The willingness to use it may be missing.

 

[AndreeOnline]

In other words, the tech is there.

We haven't seen Canon do a full frame sensor 1:1 pixel readout yet in a DSLR. I wouldn't make this assumption without any type of inside information.

I personally don't try to pull off any type of correlation based on what other manufacturer are doing—regardless of price. It's just a personal choice. I don't think it bears any relevance.

 

[david_p]

Does anyone know if the 1DXmkIII has the same 30 minute video recording limit as all the other Canon DSLRs (aside from the 1DC)?

thats a great question as a 1DXmkII owner but its almost somewhat moot unless you use a 512gb card as isn't there only 16 min record to a 128gb card? maybe with matched card slot recording would likely switch from the 1st card to the 2nd?

 

[davedv]

thats a great question as a 1DXmkII owner but its almost somewhat moot unless you use a 512gb card as isn't there only 16 min record to a 128gb card? maybe with matched card slot recording would likely switch from the 1st card to the 2nd?

Yes, for Cinema RAW Light (at least as it exists on the C200), the data rate in 4K is 1 Gbps which allows for a record time of about 15 minutes or so on a 128 GB card (Cinema RAW Light uses variable bitrate compression, so the actual data rate may vary slightly depending on the content). There are, however, 512 GB and even 1 TB CFexpress cards that have been announced and are likely to be available by the time the camera ships. A 1 TB card would allow record times of up to 2 hours or so in Cinema RAW Light.

In addition to RAW recording, Canon announced that the 1DX Mark III would be able to shoot 4K C-Log in 10-bit 4:2:2. This would presumably use some kind of compressed codec with smaller data rates although Canon has not announced which codec they'll use. Given that the camera will record HEIF stills (which are based around HEVC compression), my speculation was that they would use HEVC/H.265 for video recording as well. The Canon XF705 records in 4K in 10-bit 4:2:2 in their XF-HEVC codec, for example. They could also go with H.264 (XF-AVC codec), similar to what is in the C300 mkII and C500 mkII. It would surprise me if they went with MJPEG again.

But in any case, from a media standpoint it will almost certainly be possible to record videos for longer than 30 minutes. Whether that is enabled from a technical standpoint, however, remains to be seen.

 

[adam777]

The 1DX mark ii has been a popular camera for real estate video here in Sydney. Is anyone seriously considering using the Raw for real estate video?

 

[DLD]

The 1DX mark ii has been a popular camera for real estate video here in Sydney. Is anyone seriously considering using the Raw for real estate video?

Are you shooting apartments or mansions?

 

[adam777]

I used to do video, then I got too busy with the photos to do the video, and now everyone wants video. It will be everything as it’s mainly Eastern Suburbs near the water.

 

[DLD]

I used to do video, then I got too busy with the photos to do the video, and now everyone wants video. It will be everything as it’s mainly Eastern Suburbs near the water.

I assume the real estate agents (not sure how the business is done down under) won't have any idea about what a codec is ... unless you sell it to them. So, it'll be your call but they might appreciate you with the latest - yet, reasonably priced - gear.

Side note - DP Review has a new A7RIV YouTube video, shot on Mongolian steppes. The exteriors were taken in a bright sun, so they can look a tad harsh occasionally, but most of their indoor images are just gorgeous. Both stills and video. And their birds-in-flight clips from an eagle flying competition were good enough for any action camera. And it's a $3,500 unit. And that means that 1DX MKIII has some serious competition already. CRL may be exactly what sets it apart from A7RIV.

 

[adam777]

Thanks for that, I will check it out. Most guys are shooting on a7iii, 1DX ii, GH5, and C100 ii which are not raw light, but the water view properties are all obout being able to see the blue water and keeping the interiors bright enough, and this might be a better solution. I don’t think I would ever mention the word codec. They just want to know how good it is and how quick you can give it to them

 

[puredrifting]

I assume the real estate agents (not sure how the business is done down under) won't have any idea about what a codec is ... unless you sell it to them. So, it'll be your call but they might appreciate you with the latest - yet, reasonably priced - gear.

Side note - DP Review has a new A7RIV YouTube video, shot on Mongolian steppes. The exteriors were taken in a bright sun, so they can look a tad harsh occasionally, but most of their indoor images are just gorgeous. Both stills and video. And their birds-in-flight clips from an eagle flying competition were good enough for any action camera. And it's a $3,500 unit. And that means that 1DX MKIII has some serious competition already. CRL may be exactly what sets it apart from A7RIV.

The difference will be push that Sony fragile, circa 2015 4:2:0 8-bit 100Mbps image at all in grading and it's going to pixelate quickly. In comparison, the CRL 1Gbps 12-bit 4:2:2 from my C200 is like Silly Putty, you can push or pull it a LONG way and it holds together beautifully. It's very much like shooting RAW for stills,
you can screw up pretty badly on exposure and recover a lot more than you think you could. 1DX MKIII will be a beast of a DSLR with that option. Could be important for users who aren't really pro video shooters.

OTOH, it takes up a lot of card and drive space. And to edit it, you need a fairly healthy, modern spec computer.

 

[Samuel H]

I love shooting RAW on my p4k, it's really a different world when compared with the 8-bit Sony codec I was using before that. But it does take a toll in terms of HDD space. I've had to upgrade my CPU, RAM and GPU, I've had to add a 1TB SSD drive, I've bought several storage HDDs... and even with that, I've also had to change from my old "everything gets archived for eternity" mentality to "I just save the final product on most projects, deleting all clips once the thing is on YouTube".

Also: my p4k, like most cameras, has a reasonably high resale value. The $700 I've spent on CFast cards are almost worthless the day I switch to a different camera using different cards. Taking this into account, I expect the p4k to be my most expensive camera ever, surpassing the a7S that cost me twice as much but which I sold a year later at a reasonable price.

 

[Fahnon]

I assume the real estate agents (not sure how the business is done down under) won't have any idea about what a codec is ... unless you sell it to them. So, it'll be your call but they might appreciate you with the latest - yet, reasonably priced - gear.

I’m the in-house DP for Douglas Elliman, which is a pretty big RE company (4th largest in the US; a couple of the agents are on Million Dollar Listing). I don’t shoot property vids (only corporate for them), but I do handle the hiring of the companies who do, and I can tell you no one I know of is shooting RAW for property videos. The company I always tap for the high-end listings is shooting with the GH5.

I do know they spent a lot of time and money developing their post workflow.

I can also tell you that RE agents don’t care what you use; only price and quality. The smart ones are very discerning, and will spend to make their properties look the best.

 

[DLD]

The difference will be push that Sony fragile, circa 2015 4:2:0 8-bit 100Mbps image at all in grading and it's going to pixelate quickly...

It's quite possible that Sony's secret sauce there is the 8-bit in the 10-bit wrapper, which then smoothed out by the grading software. I haven't been able to find any A7RIV grading videos but, as I had said a few posts earlier, the DP Review interior footage of those Mongolian eagle masters is gorgeous.

Now, onto DX MK III. Not sure how many of you picked up on the latest rumors but CR posted one on the 8th from a "usually reliable source" that claimed that it will have a 20 MPX sensor while the previous claims had it at 24. Obviously, it could be Canon testing different bodies and/or different sensors out in the wild ... or, it might be that there is a DX MKIII and DC MKIII twins that might be released, with one oriented toward action/sports and the other toward video.

I’m the in-house DP for Douglas Elliman, which is a pretty big RE company (4th largest in the US; a couple of the agents are on Million Dollar Listing). I don’t shoot property vids (only corporate for them), but I do handle the hiring of the companies who do, and I can tell you no one I know of is shooting RAW for property videos. The company I always tap for the high-end listings is shooting with the GH5...

What did they use prior to GH-5? 4-3-2? Camcorders?

IMO, the Raw turn in real estate will come sooner or later because of the windows. One would often need that extra stop of two.

 

[ntouched]

Samuel H, I too have really enjoyed using BRAW on the p4k. Probably the biggest bang for the buck I've ever received out of a camera! BMD really doing a great job in the industry.

 

[jb.]

...The smart ones are very discerning, and will spend to make their properties look the best...

All two of them.

For an industry where quality definitely sells, I have never encountered a higher percentage of nickel-and-dimers in my life. I'm friends with an agent who pays me to produce good stuff for his higher-end properties, but far more of them will balk at a modest charge for full terrestrial and aerial photos AND walkthrough video for a seven-figure property. The real estate industry is brutal.

 

[Fahnon]

It's quite possible that Sony's secret sauce there is the 8-bit in the 10-bit wrapper, which then smoothed out by the grading software. I haven't been able to find any A7RIV grading videos but, as I had said a few posts earlier, the DP Review interior footage of those Mongolian eagle masters is gorgeous.

Now, onto DX MK III. Not sure how many of you picked up on the latest rumors but CR posted one on the 8th from a "usually reliable source" that claimed that it will have a 20 MPX sensor while the previous claims had it at 24. Obviously, it could be Canon testing different bodies and/or different sensors out in the wild ... or, it might be that there is a DX MKIII and DC MKIII twins that might be released, with one oriented toward action/sports and the other toward video.

What did they use prior to GH-5? 4-3-2? Camcorders?

IMO, the Raw turn in real estate will come sooner or later because of the windows. One would often need that extra stop of two.

I actually did try to convince one or two of them to go the raw route. As you said you really want to be able to see out of the windows. The problem is that post has to be fast for the vast majority of these shoots and the margins are thin most of the time. Most are not willing to deal with the post workflow and data costs. I’m my end I do, because I’m shooting corporate stuff and it’s usually part of a larger project and the creative team there does want the best we can get, but if I were shooting high volume RE videos I’d probably end up blowing out the windows and getting separate view shots. I hope with computers getting more powerful and Resolve getting easier each version that raw and 4K becomes the standard.

As for what they were using I believe it was GH4. The vast majority are using Sony A7R/S though, and some Canon because a lot of them shoot stills and video and don’t keep separate bodies for each. The guys I’m taking about that use Panasonic are primarily video.

 

[Fahnon]

All two of them.

For an industry where quality definitely sells, I have never encountered a higher percentage of nickel-and-dimers in my life. I'm friends with an agent who pays me to produce good stuff for his higher-end properties, but far more of them will balk at a modest charge for full terrestrial and aerial photos AND walkthrough video for a seven-figure property. The real estate industry is brutal.

Yeah I’m thinking of the ones that have expensive listings and the marketing budgets to match. Those are the ones that will pay a few thousand per video when the majority think a few hundred is too much. I’m not surprised you’re running into what you’re running into.

The top agents are millionaires, but the vast majority don’t make nearly that much and are also deal makers by trade and that combination leads to the situation you’re describing I think.

 

[DLD]

I was IM'ing with a California based friend last night. We began to talk about properties, condos vs SFR, etc. Finally, just to prove a point, I had to show him some Zillow listings in South Florida. And, naturally, most of the listings have photos only. And it's not that difficult to shoot HDR in stills. So, there's your water view through the window or off a shaded balcony.

For some of those bathrooms and kitchenettes, though, one might have needed a fisheye.

 

[adam777]

What happened to the raw video? Bhphotovideo doesn't mention it in the Specs. I'm sure it was there before.... Are Canon being Canon and holding back features?