1DC: Canon 1DC 4K workflow for documentary

Omar N

Omar N

Active member
Hello community!

I am considering the Canon 1DC for a doc project I have in the works. Problem is, those 4K files are massive. Has anybody come up with a workable workflow for handling hours of media per day from this camera?

I was thinking to immediately convert all of the 4K dailies to Pro-Res, deleting the motion JPEG original, and using the Pro-Res as my master just so I can keep the file sizes more manageable. I am not sure if that is the best option though, it scares me to delete the dailies and keep the Pro-Res without having a chance to thoroughly review all of it.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks!
 
I'm guessing the ProRes 4K files would be around the same data rate.

1Dc 4K data rate is around 500 mbps. C300 Mark II 4K data rate is around 440 mbps. So they're pretty similar.

If you're going to shoot 4K, you can either shoot mediocre 4K on a more compressed codec such as the A7s II, Fs5, etc., or shoot on a better codec with a higher data rate. If the latter, then you spend more on hard drives. But, I don't think you're spending all that much on hard drives. An 8 TB hard drive is around $200 and will get you about 50 hours of footage from the 1Dc in 4K, so one or two of them will probably store the whole documentary, I guess 2-4 if you go with one backup. So $400-$800 of hard drives.

If you can't afford those hard drive costs and want 4K, then shoot on a camera that gives you more compressed 4K options.

I suppose you could convert to h.264 or some higher compressed codec and delete your originals, but it would seem like a waste to throw out the higher quality originals.
 
Omar N said:
I am considering the Canon 1DC for a doc project... Problem is, those 4K files are massive.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The files are large because they consist of 4k DCI frames with INTRA compression, without compression artifacts. That's the main thing. Like Eric said above, the 1Dc files are coming in at around 500-520Mbit/s. Here are the ProRes target bitrates for various speeds in a 4k DCI container:


ProRes FPS............Target bitrate

....24..........................503 Mbps
....25..........................524 Mbps
....30..........................629 Mbps
....50.........................1049 Mbps
....60.........................1257 Mbps

Why is it then, that one of the first things that you always read about the 1Dc is that the codec sucks? It's true that 520Mbps is a bit more bloated than Canon's 'state of the art' 440Mbps codec that you find in the C3000 mkII. But somehow I don't think that difference is the issue. The main problem here is people mistaking a professional codec (in terms of encoding scheme) for a consumer one (highly compressed Long GOP).

Same thing with the little XC-10: 422, intra frame at 305 Mbps (basically same codec as C300 mkII, but 8-bit and UHD) <------- People don't get that either.

Omar N said:
Suggestions?
Click to expand...

I love the images from the 1Dc. Really great. Stealthy form factor and great hybrid capability with great stills. I don't think it's the best doc camera though, where you'd want to keep it rolling. I haven't really encountered it myself, but if you keep the camera rolling you'll need to think about heat management.

For docs, why not just pick up a C100 mkII for cheap and start shooting? If you're not interested in that, ask yourself if it's the camera (1Dc) you want, or if you want to get the job (your doc) done.

That said, I'd recommend the 1Dc to anyone who knows what they are buying. For a smaller format doc where it's more like your making an environmental portrait, steeling shots here and there, coupled with interviews, then I'd recommend the 1Dc without reservation. No, make that one reservation: you obviously don't have any slowmo capability that could be great in that situation.

I have a 1Dc for sale, but I'm not actively trying to sell it. I almost wish it will end up as a book stop on my shelf and I'll just fondle it a couple of times a year until I die.
 
I love my 1Dc. I have a C500 with CD 7Q+ but still opt for the 1Dc when I am shooting B-Roll. Recently shot a "1984" spoof dark comedy TV commercial with it. It looks great! Really like the 1.3 crop! It's fantastic when you want to shoot on wide lenses close to subject and still have shallow depth of field.

I can't say that my technique is the best, but I tend to convert all the footage down to ProRes 2k 444 HQ... then if I need to add motion or crop, I sync only those shots with the 4k. It sure takes up a lot of space!

We are currently shooting a pilot TV episode at the moment and shooting 2k 4444 XQ with the C500 and 4K with the 1Dc. It is crazy to see how quickly space is stacking up!

Best Regards,

Chris McGuinness
www.pulsecinema.com
 
Personally I think the 4K C100 MKIII will fill this niche very soon, very nicely at about $6k. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to the DSLR form factor, I did it for three years, done, other than my 80D on my Zhiyun Crane. Only video cameras for me, I need XLRs, TC, built in NDs too much but I have seen some beautiful work from the 1DC, it's a great camera.
 
I have to second what @Puredrifting said above. There is a reason a video camera works for docs...it's the ergos.

I went from a 1DX, to an A7RII, to finally an FS5, learning along the way that I need an eye-level viewfinder, internal NDs, XLR and direct controls easy to reach in a hurry, even while wearing gloves. To plug the FS5, that variable auto-ND is a fantasy come true for quickly changing light levels and cameras on the move.
 
David_Manning said:
I have to second what @Puredrifting said above. There is a reason a video camera works for docs...it's the ergos.

I went from a 1DX, to an A7RII, to finally an FS5, learning along the way that I need an eye-level viewfinder, internal NDs, XLR and direct controls easy to reach in a hurry, even while wearing gloves. To plug the FS5, that variable auto-ND is a fantasy come true for quickly changing light levels and cameras on the move.
Click to expand...

Not a huge Sony fan but that variable ND on the FS5 and FS7 MKII is genius. All cameras should have this standard, it makes modulating exposure any other way rather outdated.
 
Good post guys, just brought a C500 C MAC, can't wait.. Is there a 4k c100 coming out then?

I wanted a 1dc I think the image out of them is incredible one of the best to date. Just unsure a good post workflow. Echo what others have said c100 will be quick run and gun too and image is great
 
I've seen lots of good films from a surprising variety of cameras. I think if post can be handled correctly, you can get a good looking result from most modern cameras and even codecs. But nothing replaces good ergonomics at the capture phase. When you have to hold it, travel with it, shoot with it, change on the fly, expose with it, and be consistent...that's the difference between a professional camera and anything else. I could never comfortable shoot my A7RII (stills or video) in a cold climate...dinky buttons, too many menus. My 1DX is a monster for stills and can be operated wearing thick gloves in the dark. For video, a dedicated video camera is worth it's weight...which is why the Canon C series or Sony FS series are really useful. They don't get in the way of workflow.
 
David_Manning said:
I've seen lots of good films from a surprising variety of cameras. I think if post can be handled correctly, you can get a good looking result from most modern cameras and even codecs. But nothing replaces good ergonomics at the capture phase. When you have to hold it, travel with it, shoot with it, change on the fly, expose with it, and be consistent...that's the difference between a professional camera and anything else. I could never comfortable shoot my A7RII (stills or video) in a cold climate...dinky buttons, too many menus. My 1DX is a monster for stills and can be operated wearing thick gloves in the dark. For video, a dedicated video camera is worth it's weight...which is why the Canon C series or Sony FS series are really useful. They don't get in the way of workflow.
Click to expand...

yep! The image is just part of the answer...not struggling to get that image is as important.
 
It really depends on the person. I like a good video camera, but would also consider myself a native DSLR shooter and feel very comfortable using one. Some people don't want to use a traditional video camera, and can do more with a stills camera that shoots video.
 
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