Canon 1DC 4k external recording

[José Alkon]

I just wanted to post some pics and finding from shooting with my Canon 1DC set to 4k but recording externally to my Atomos Samurai Blade.

Now first up you'll be asking yourself why would I do such a thing as obviously it is only recording externally as 1920x1080 and not 4k. The benefits of shooting 4k are great and I shoot it when it is the right job for it but as we know they are huge files to deal with in post, depending on the shoot you'll need several 1000x CF cards and motion jpeg can be a bit of a let down in some situations. The majority of times HD is the format most clients want and require and I have been shooting most of my work on the 1DC on s35 mode (which is a beautiful image seamless next to a c300 and personally I think it looks better) dual recording into the camera and externally to a Ninja2 with great results.

I started doing some test recording externally all the formats the 1DC can do and was amazed to find the quality difference between them. Philip Bloom has already done this and his review is fantastic but it only talks about recording in-camera, externally the difference between Full Frame and s35 is obvious but set to 4k the quality and resolution gets even better. Canon understates it saying it is just intended as a proxy record for post but after doing a shoot with it recently I was quiet blown away by it. Sharper than s35, wider FOV, no aliasing, and most important no compression banding! The only thing you have to do in post is zoom in by 7% to get rid of the black bars on the top and bottom due to the different aspect ratio which does not hinder the overall quality but you will have to take into account when shooting.

I'm not sure if technically I'm correct in saying this but in theory would the image recorded externally to a recorder be the same as the 4k image down coverted to 1920x1080 in post? Please let me know your thoughts.

This is not a scientific test but my personal views on shooting with it, sorry I have not had time to do identical comparisons shots in the different modes for a more technical review. Attached are some screen shots from my macbook retina from the original ungraded Prores 422 files recorded on my Samurai Blade (awesome recorder/monitor highly recommend it, waveform is unreal!), notice the detail in the bricks in the pavilion, hand railing in the walkway and on top of the lighthouse, on the statue, no sky banding, etc etc.

Camera: Canon 1DC
Format: 4k 25p
Picture Style: C-Log
ISO: 400
Filters: ND1.2 / True Polariser
Lens: Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS, 24-70 f2.8
External Recorder: Atomos Samurai Blade (Prores 422)

 

[Celluloid Dream]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. What is the size of the image recorded by the Samurai Blade in this mode, 1920 x 1013?

 

[Guest]

I just wanted to post some pics and finding from shooting with my Canon 1DC set to 4k but recording externally to my Atomos Samurai Blade.

Now first up you'll be asking yourself why would I do such a thing as obviously it is only recording externally as 1920x1080 and not 4k. The benefits of shooting 4k are great and I shoot it when it is the right job for it but as we know they are huge files to deal with in post, depending on the shoot you'll need several 1000x CF cards and motion jpeg can be a bit of a let down in some situations. The majority of times HD is the format most clients want and require and I have been shooting most of my work on the 1DC on s35 mode (which is a beautiful image seamless next to a c300 and personally I think it looks better) dual recording into the camera and externally to a Ninja2 with great results.

I started doing some test recording externally all the formats the 1DC can do and was amazed to find the quality difference between them. Philip Bloom has already done this and his review is fantastic but it only talks about recording in-camera, externally the difference between Full Frame and s35 is obvious but set to 4k the quality and resolution gets even better. Canon understates it saying it is just intended as a proxy record for post but after doing a shoot with it recently I was quiet blown away by it. Sharper than s35, wider FOV, no aliasing, and most important no compression banding! The only thing you have to do in post is zoom in by 7% to get rid of the black bars on the top and bottom due to the different aspect ratio which does not hinder the overall quality but you will have to take into account when shooting.

I'm not sure if technically I'm correct in saying this but in theory would the image recorded externally to a recorder be the same as the 4k image down coverted to 1920x1080 in post? Please let me know your thoughts.

This is not a scientific test but my personal views on shooting with it, sorry I have not had time to do identical comparisons shots in the different modes for a more technical review. Attached are some screen shots from my macbook retina from the original ungraded Prores 422 files recorded on my Samurai Blade (awesome recorder/monitor highly recommend it, waveform is unreal!), notice the detail in the bricks in the pavilion, hand railing in the walkway and on top of the lighthouse, on the statue, no sky banding, etc etc.

Camera: Canon 1DC
Format: 4k 25p
Picture Style: C-Log
ISO: 400
Filters: ND1.2 / True Polariser
Lens: Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS, 24-70 f2.8
External Recorder: Atomos Samurai Blade (Prores 422)

Could you consider posting this in the cinema eos section user thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?309966-1D-C-Users (just because it shows up in 1D-C google searches and may be useful to other 1D-C users. )

 

[macgregor]

I did this same test, recording with the atomos ninja the hdmi output while recording 4K. The 4K downsampled to 1080p looked better. The ouput is limited to 8bits anyway. The 4K downsampled looked sharper and seemed to show a bit more detail in the shadows. And also it will carry a better chroma sampling (444 once downsampled vs whatever is feed out the hdmi and recorded as prores 422).

 

[Guest]

I did this same test, recording with the atomos ninja the hdmi output while recording 4K. The 4K downsampled to 1080p looked better. The ouput is limited to 8bits anyway. The 4K downsampled looked sharper and seemed to show a bit more detail in the shadows. And also it will carry a better chroma sampling (444 once downsampled vs whatever is feed out the hdmi and recorded as prores 422).

I would rather do the 4k downsample, as well.

 

[José Alkon]

Yeah I agree the 4k down sampled would be a better image but I was pretty stoked with these results and would consider shooting it again in the future instead of s35 for shoots that don't require a dual record as it's such a better image. Specially when recording for long takes or a long day it saves a tonne of post work later but obviously it always depends on the job and the client.

It is a bit scary relying on the hdmi but I found the Samurai Blade is a quiet robust recorder during the entire day I only got one dropped frame and that was when I knocked the hdmi cable by accident and a warning note comes up when you do to let you know.

Regarding the size it still records 1920x1080 but that includes the black bars so not sure what it comes to once you zoom in or if you want to crop/mask to different aspects.

 

[José Alkon]

Also remember it is an 8bit 4:2:2 4k image recorded in camera the same as the hdmi output. I haven't tested it but agree the down sampled image would probably have more detail and information, just wanted to post my observations comparing external record of 4k vs s35.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Thanks for sharing! I also second James in saying that it would be cool if you post 1Dc specific information in the Cinema EOS forum part. It also has a 1Dc sub topic.

I haven't looked into external recordings at all, but is it correct that if you hook up an external recorder/SSD and set the camera to 4k, you don't have to record to CF cards as well? Or do you need to capture the 4k files internally as well and just format those cards as they fill up (for longer shoots)?

One last thing: it's impossible to judge true quality on such small jpegs. Do you have anything up on Vimeo? Or larger frame grabs?

Anyway, I appreciate the write up!

 

[José Alkon]

No you don't have to record to camera if you don't want to but obviously you won't get 4k recording externally only a stunning super sharp HD image. Sorry about images they look rubbish on the post I uploaded the full res screen grabs and thought they'd be downloadable I'm new to posting so I'll try to figure out how to make the full res accessible.

 

[Guest]

Also remember it is an 8bit 4:2:2 4k image recorded in camera the same as the hdmi output. I haven't tested it but agree the down sampled image would probably have more detail and information, just wanted to post my observations comparing external record of 4k vs s35.

I currently do not have an external recorder, and would probably spend that money on cards... that being said, if the gradients are smoother, and there is little to no loss in resolution, then I think it is a cool option for certain uses.

 

[marvinhello]

Odyssey 7 is the best choice for an external recorder, slightly cheaper than Blade, better screen and I/O (it has HDMI & SDI!)

Unfortunately it's delayed until December...

 

[yoclay]

Odyssey 7 is the best choice for an external recorder, slightly cheaper than Blade, better screen and I/O (it has HDMI & SDI!)

Unfortunately it's delayed until December...

Not really cheaper than blade, as soon as you begin paying for the important and defining options.
Also requires proprietary drives, so get's expensive real quick.
With the blade you can evem use just normal 2.5" hard drives as well as SSD's..

 

[macgregor]

You can buy the blade.
You cant buy the odyssey.
Therefore the odyssey cannot be better as it doest exist.