AC130: Can the AC130A replace my Canon XH-A1? Your comments will be welcomed!

J

JBCoons

Member
I really need some expert advice from AC130A owners. I currently use a Canon XH-A1 to primarily video horse shows and want to upgrade to a “non tape” camera because I live in constant fear of the tape transport mechanism failing. I have looked at all the offering currently available and really like features and specifications of the AC130A. One feature in particular is the ability to video in DV format, as all the video I currently shoot is standard definition, wide-screen. I will shoot 10 to 100 2 minute clips a day, then download the tape(s) in the evening, build DVDs for my clients with perhaps 4 to 6 clips on each DVD, and bring them to the show the next day. Post-processing speed is vital, and after 5 years of doing this I have it mastered (I use Adobe Premiere Elements – very little editing is required, just trim each clip and fade to black).

I can see requests for HD coming in the future, so I do not want limit myself. The AC130A should give me the image quality my clients demand, XLR input for my shotgun mic, and 18-20x zoom capability needed for a few equestrian events (and other video projects).

Everything I shoot at a horse show is at 60i and fixed focus (the center of the show ring). With my Canon XH-A1 I can shoot in a “semi-auto” mode and the camera tries its best to shoot at 1/60 of a sec, giving me a warning if needed to put in ND filters – if I don’t the shutter speed will creep up to 1/100 or more which can result in “staggered” portions of the image when I pan across the vertical stands holding up the jumps (if that makes sense).

Several specific questions, even though I have read the PDF of the manual and perused the postings in this forum -

1. Is Standard Definition, wide screen an option? (I do not want to shoot in HD and convert in Post due to the processing time).
2. Can I simply put the SD cards in my PC and copy individual AVI files to my hard drive?
3. Is there a setting that allows me to shoot 60i and keeps the shutter speed at 1/60 AND gives a warning if I need to crank in the ND filter?

There is no dealer near me in West Tennessee who stocks or rents AC130A’s so when I purchase one and unbox it I certainly do not want to be surprised if it lacks those basic requirements.

Thanks in advance for any comments or advice you might give me!
 
JBCoons said:
1. Is Standard Definition, wide screen an option? (I do not want to shoot in HD and convert in Post due to the processing time).
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Yes.
2. Can I simply put the SD cards in my PC and copy individual AVI files to my hard drive?
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Sort of. They're not AVI files, they're h.264 .MTS files. And while you could copy them directly over, that's not really a recommended workflow. You should copy the whole memory card directly, and then use your NLE's import function. But essentially yes, the workflow is shoot-plug in card-edit. No long "capture" sessions anymore!
3. Is there a setting that allows me to shoot 60i and keeps the shutter speed at 1/60 AND gives a warning if I need to crank in the ND filter?
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Yes. In fact there is no automatic shutter changing at all; the shutter will always be at 1/60 (or whatever you manually set it at).
 
Just bear in mind though as a previous 130 owner, The camera will warn you to switch ND's if the iris cannot cope with the lighting change and you simply switch ND's (it will even prompt you to change a second time if needed) BUT you do really need to do the ND change at a point where you can cut the footage as the mechanical switching of the ND causes a "flash" on the footage. With horse shows this should be fine but I was doing weddings and having a ND change during wedding vows is something you don't want to have to do as you cannot cut out the obvious flash on the footage as the filter comes in. Otherwise it's a really magic camera and sounds perfect for your needs and using a fixed manual focus means you won't have any auto focus issues either!! The 23X zoom is awesome!

Chris
 
Have you thought about buying FIRESTORE or Citidisc recorders and keeping the xha1? I watched a few few comparison vids between the a1, and 130, and honestly, aside from the the tapeless media, and better low light on the ac-130, it really isn't enough of an upgrade in picture quality to where I say yes, a must do. I do know the Canon even as old as it is has faster autofocus, they both suffer from CA.
 
Barry,

Thanks for your comments. The file type for Standard Definition is what has me concerned... in the brochure for the AC130, Panasonic states under "DV Recording Mode Supported" that the camera "Records SD into a DV-format file (AVI Type 2) for added flexibility." That leads me to think is does not use the AVCHD format. If I am reading your comments correctly, you say it does use the AVCHD format rather than an AVI extension file-type?
John
 
Chris,

Thanks for the warning about changing ND filters in the middle of a clip (analogous to changing horses in the middle of the stream?) I was panning the show ring once without recording to see if I had the proper ND filter - got the warning - cranked in another notch on the filter and saw the "flash" you describe. Glad I tried that while I was NOT recording!

John
 
I have considered adding an external recorder (when they first came out they were using hard drives) but I am leery about yet another piece of equipment mounted and plugged into my camera. I have to quickly move my rig among the 3 show rings and can see "something breaking." If I had a more static environment I would feel better about it.

John
 
Grrr. Sorry, my brain shorted out and crossed two cameras. The AC130 does indeed use DV. The new AC90 uses mpeg4 for its standard def.

sorry.

And yes, you can just copy the DV .AVI files over directly to your NLE.
 
I considered the AC90 instead of the AC130A, but the specs did not indicate the AC90 can supply 48V phantom power to the attached XLR mics (I have 4 mics, all requiring phantom power). CORRECTION - While the Panasonic specs do not mention phantom power, the Pasnasonic brochure says the AC90 cn supply it. I do like the concept of auto ND filters - are they true "physical filters" or "electronic filters?" (whatever that means... Canon has a similar camera that has "auto filters" that are "electronic" and several users complain about them not working that well, but that could be Canon's design). The 12X zoom of the AC90 might work for me at horse shows - I have 20X on my XH-A1 and do not use full zoom - but I also video classical symphony concerts. It's a long way from the stage to the center-bay of the control booth at the back of the auditorium and I need ALL of the 20X when I zoom in on a solo violinist.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Yes. In fact there is no automatic shutter changing at all; the shutter will always be at 1/60 (or whatever you manually set it at).
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Let's see if I understand your comment. Assume I set the ND filter, set the camera for a shutter speed of 1/60 (does Panasonic calls this shutter-priority mode?), and start shooting. I am following a horse around the show ring, and the camera adjusts the iris as nesecessary. So far, so good. But then the clouds part and a shaft of sun really brightens up the area. What will the camera do - decrease the gain or overexpose? With my XH-A1 in "semi auto mode," it will try to keep the shutter at 1/60 but will adjust the gain up/down to its limits - if that is not sufficient, the shutter speed will creep up/down. This has resulted in some grainy footage when the horse moves from a bright area in the ring to a shady area (I had set the ND filter for the bright area) but it stayed at 1/60th. Other times I had too little ND and the brightest areas were shot at 1/100 or 1/120.

I guess that there are too many variables, but how will the AC130 adjust to "save" the exposure?

John
 
Hi John

Even in full auto and the shutter at default, the shutter never changes, you have to change it!! Now, let's say it's overcast a bit and the camera decides on F4.0 and you have ND filters set to none and exposure is accurate. Now the sun comes out so the camera starts to close the iris and once it gets past the sweet spot (I think around F8) the display will flash a warning saying "ND 1/4" and you will need to manually switch in the first ND...if the lighting is still too much it will flash "ND 1/16" and you again need to manually switch in to the 2nd ND position .....it continues like this until it feels there is enough ND switched in to allow a reasonable iris range. If the clouds return it will reverse the warning and ask you to reduce ND's ..however it still keeps running so you do have a little bit of latitude....I was running two 130's and with one sometimes 15' away it was too difficult to use for me as a solo operator at weddings. It shouldn't be an issue if you are hovering over the camera all the time but I simply didn't like the autoiris system at all!! The AC-90 is like the old HMC's and will kick in auto ND's and change shutter too so the exposure control is seamless. The 130 won't save the exposure at all...I had tons of wedding footage totally blown out cos I didn't get to the camera in time and it needed an ND correction. It's really a pity they didn't at least allow an auto shutter change cos overall it's a nice camera with awesome footage...keep focus locked down too..the auto focus wanders all the time ..On manual focus and full manual operation it's hard to beat for quality but it does need a full time operator and your full attention!!

Chris
 
If I may ask, why are you not using full manual control? I would think you would be more comfortable making decisions over the settings, than an internal computer making them for you. Please don't take this as being snarky question. I'm just curious:)
 
Chris,

Your comments about the lack of auto shutter change to "correct" the exposure has me really concerned about the AC130. To restate what I think I require in a camera - I shoot Standard Definition for delivery on DVD, so I really want to use a shutter speed of 1/60. I primarily video horses at horse shows... a horse enters the ring and goes over a series of jumps for about 2 minutes - that is a clip. Sometimes one end of the ring is in deep shadow while the other is in bright sun. Obviously I cannot change the ND filter during the videoing (can't change horses in the middle of the stream... sorry for that pun...) so is there any "setting" on the AC130 that will allow me to capture that 2 minute event without blowing out the exposure?

Let me say how helpful everyone on the forum has been in offering advice to me... I really apprecite it!

John
 
There is no possibility of automatic shutter changing in an AC130, period.

If you want auto gain, you can get that, so it can choose to automatically pick the iris and, when the iris is fully open, it can then choose the level of gain that you limit it to (such as a maximum of 12dB, for example). But there is no capability for automatic shutter adjustment.

If you need to change the strength of the ND filter, it's a physical wheel you rotate, so there will be a visible disruption in the shot when you do that.

The AC90 doesn't have an "automatic" ND filter in the sense that it decides when and where to apply it; instead it has a fully integrated optical ND filter that helps it extend its exposure range. It is a seamless transition. The AC90 also has the ability to have seamless gain from 0 to 30 dB, and it has automatic shutter control. If you want a camera that has the ability to go from very dark to bright sunlight and adjust exposure automatically throughout the range, seamlessly, the AC90 may be the better choice.
 
I shot a horse show in Carver, MA, a few yrs back. It was a lot of fun. I was impressed, I had never seen anything like it in person. I thought "horse show, gonna be a bunch of snooty stuck up people" Couldn't be further from the truth. The majority of people were friendly and more than willing to enlighten me on the subject. It really was fascinating to film.
 
maranfilms said:
If I may ask, why are you not using full manual control? I would think you would be more comfortable making decisions over the settings, than an internal computer making them for you. Please don't take this as being snarky question. I'm just curious:)
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Excellent question and I do not think it is at all "snarky!" What I want the camera to do is to take properly exposed frames shooting at a fixed focus. A clip is about 2 minutes long, and I am following a horse going over jumps - sometimes in a bright area of the ring, sometimes in a deeply shadowed area. Since the videoed is delivered on a DVD and watched on a TV (occasionally on a laptop) I shoot in 60i to keep the action "smooth." In the Canon XH-A1 world, when you set the camera to 60i it tries to keep the shutter at 1/60. On a sunny day you obviously need to crank in ND filters or the shutter speed really increases. I have seen DVDs made by other "professional equestrian videographers" (I claim to be one of that group) and can tell when their shutter speeds increase to 1/100 or 1/250 - the vertical supports holding up the horizontal jump rails will appear to the experienced eye to "stagger" on the TV due to the fact the frames are interleaved. Keep in mind a horse is going about 15-16 MPH at a canter (about 1 foot between "frames" in my NLE) and the horse might be 20 feet from me at the closest, so I am panning rapidly. (When I look at a single frame in the NLE the horse and rider appear "frozen" while the rest of the image is blured - at 1/60 of a second that is to be expected IF I am panning smoothly.)

So is there a setting on the AC130A that will achieve this? Will shootingo at 60i on the AC130A's "full auto" setting keep the shutter speed at 1/60 AND allow me to use fixed focus, color setttings, and my selected white balance? On the Canon XH-A1 "full auto" (the "green button setting") results in auto everything - focus, white balance, color, etc. - pretty useless in my opinion. What I have been calling Canon's "semi auto" lets me select those important settings, especially fixed focus - and the XH-A1 selects shutter speed, gain, and iris, trying its best to keep the shutter speed at 1/60 (because it is 60i) and increasing the gain if there is too much ND cranked in, or increasing the shutter speed if there is too little ND.

Surely the AC130A has a similar setting to the Canon's "semi-auto."

Hey - I am a believer in full-manual but those darn horses will not stay in a uniformly lit area of the show ring!

Thanks in advace for your comments - I really like the specs and build of the AC-130A and think it would be the perfect camera for me IF I can feel assured it does have setting(s) that would allow me to do the above!

John
 
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Hi John,
Just a thought: The BIG disadvantage of having a shutter going all over the place is that for animated subjects such as horses it could get a bit stuttervision- the last thing you need. The 130a/160a , as Barry elegantly explains is fixed/manual shutter speed- exactly what you need.
If you use the auto iris and auto gain as your guardians of all things perfectly exposed, your movement realism will be maintained. This may mean setting a very high limit on the gain, but will give you the widest tolerance on exposure and beautifully smooth movement of the horses. This would be my choice- and the 130/160 have the amazing long lens too!
Cheers!
Rod
 
JBCoons said:
So is there a setting on the AC130A that will achieve this? Will shootingo at 60i on the AC130A's "full auto" setting keep the shutter speed at 1/60 AND allow me to use fixed focus, color setttings, and my selected white balance?
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On the AC130 you can choose which features to have in manual, and which to have in auto. So you can independently mix and match auto-iris, auto-focus, and auto-white-balance. You can have any combination of manual and auto for those things.

What you cannot have at all, is auto shutter speed. It simply has no provision for auto shutter speed. The shutter will stay exactly where you set it.

The ND filter will always be adjusted manually as well; there is no provision for automatic ND filter changing.
 
Hi John

Unless the 23X zoom is essential you would be way better in your situation looking at the AC-90 already suggested by Barry ... I personally used 130's for 3 months and then sold them for a huge loss as they just were not suitable for run 'n gun (in fact any situation where you will get a change of lighting that exceeds the iris range) They are great camera where they work well like dance and theatre performances and such by if you want to stick with Panasonic I would definately look at the AC-90 it has exactly what you need on it!!

Chris
 
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