Doing mostly dramatic shorts with the XL2...Do you think I can get away with just using the 3X WA. Trying to keep the XL2 as small as possible. Besides DOF issues, do you think the zoom range can cover a majority of my shots or will I be wishing I had that 16X? Again, this is for dramatic work.
Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
- Thread starter dvaddict
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Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
[quote author=dvaddict link=board=XL2;num=1099926826;start=0#0 date=11/08/04 at 07:13:46]Doing mostly dramatic shorts with the XL2...Do you think I can get away with just using the 3X WA. Trying to keep the XL2 as small as possible. Besides DOF issues, do you think the zoom range can cover a majority of my shots or will I be wishing I had that 16X? Again, this is for dramatic work.[/quote]
Wow. That is a tough one. It would depend on your project or projects. I would guess that it will not be enough. At some point in time you will need more telephoto than you can get with the 3x wide. That is my opinion. I don't think you'll use the very long end of the 16x manual often but the wider range is very useful. YMMV.
[quote author=dvaddict link=board=XL2;num=1099926826;start=0#0 date=11/08/04 at 07:13:46]Doing mostly dramatic shorts with the XL2...Do you think I can get away with just using the 3X WA. Trying to keep the XL2 as small as possible. Besides DOF issues, do you think the zoom range can cover a majority of my shots or will I be wishing I had that 16X? Again, this is for dramatic work.[/quote]
Wow. That is a tough one. It would depend on your project or projects. I would guess that it will not be enough. At some point in time you will need more telephoto than you can get with the 3x wide. That is my opinion. I don't think you'll use the very long end of the 16x manual often but the wider range is very useful. YMMV.
MattC
Veteran
Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
I have both the 20x and the 3x and I love both of them and use them both. For my short, which was done in a relatively small apartment I relied on the 3x, although I did use the 20x, specifically for DOF issues. Other than that, the 3x proved most useful.
Of course, I still want the 16x manual.... ;-)
Matt
I have both the 20x and the 3x and I love both of them and use them both. For my short, which was done in a relatively small apartment I relied on the 3x, although I did use the 20x, specifically for DOF issues. Other than that, the 3x proved most useful.
Of course, I still want the 16x manual.... ;-)
Matt
Antoine_Fabi
Well-known member
Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
Matt,
1-did you have the back focus problem with the 3X with wide aperture ?
2-is the 3X as sharp as the 20X ?
thanks
Matt,
1-did you have the back focus problem with the 3X with wide aperture ?
2-is the 3X as sharp as the 20X ?
thanks
Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
Don't forget you can purchase a Century Optics wide angle adapter. You could go with the Canon 14X full manual lens, with an actual iris ring, and purchase Century Optics' VS-06WA-75 .6 wide angle adapter.
This should provide you with the best of both worlds. The 14X manual is still a very good lens, and is the only lens available for the XL series of camcorders with a true iris ring. Since you are doing dramatic shorts, optical image stabilization and auto-focus isn't as important as a solid lens with real f-stops, distance scale, etc.
With the 14X, you can get enough of a zoom but use the Century adapter for tighter, wider shots.
Some vendors still carry the Canon 14X manual lens brand new for about $900, while the Century Optics wide angle adapter goes for about $329.
Perhaps the only drawback to this setup is that you'll need a mattebox with rods support. The Canon 14X lens is an external focus lens and the whole front element turns when you focus. In other words, no clamp-on matteboxes. You'll need the rods to hold the mattebox firm.
Of course, if you are serious about DV filmmaking, then a mattebox with rods would be something you'd consider in the future anyway. And if you're uncomfortable with manual-everything, then this setup could also take some time getting used to.
Don't forget you can purchase a Century Optics wide angle adapter. You could go with the Canon 14X full manual lens, with an actual iris ring, and purchase Century Optics' VS-06WA-75 .6 wide angle adapter.
This should provide you with the best of both worlds. The 14X manual is still a very good lens, and is the only lens available for the XL series of camcorders with a true iris ring. Since you are doing dramatic shorts, optical image stabilization and auto-focus isn't as important as a solid lens with real f-stops, distance scale, etc.
With the 14X, you can get enough of a zoom but use the Century adapter for tighter, wider shots.
Some vendors still carry the Canon 14X manual lens brand new for about $900, while the Century Optics wide angle adapter goes for about $329.
Perhaps the only drawback to this setup is that you'll need a mattebox with rods support. The Canon 14X lens is an external focus lens and the whole front element turns when you focus. In other words, no clamp-on matteboxes. You'll need the rods to hold the mattebox firm.
Of course, if you are serious about DV filmmaking, then a mattebox with rods would be something you'd consider in the future anyway. And if you're uncomfortable with manual-everything, then this setup could also take some time getting used to.
MattC
Veteran
Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
Antoine,
I had no backfocus issues with the lense and have found it to be every bit as sharp as the 20X, I know it theory it isn't but it looks it. Watch my short, does it look like I used two different lenses? There were issues of "softness" with this lense with the Xl1 and the XL1s. Prior to the XL2 everyone assumed it was a problem with the lense. The current school of thought is that it was a problem with the older camera since folks who have the lense and have/had both cameras.
I really like the 16x lense and will probably get one. I was going to get the 14x but everyone I've spoken too likes the 16 better and says that the glass is much better in it. The only real difference, AFAIK, is the manual iris and that doesn't seem like a big deal. Oz, correct me if I'm wrong but how often do you change your iris setting WHILE shooting? I find the electronic iris of the XL2 to work well. Yes you can see the change, but it appears to be very consistent.
Matt
Antoine,
I had no backfocus issues with the lense and have found it to be every bit as sharp as the 20X, I know it theory it isn't but it looks it. Watch my short, does it look like I used two different lenses? There were issues of "softness" with this lense with the Xl1 and the XL1s. Prior to the XL2 everyone assumed it was a problem with the lense. The current school of thought is that it was a problem with the older camera since folks who have the lense and have/had both cameras.
I really like the 16x lense and will probably get one. I was going to get the 14x but everyone I've spoken too likes the 16 better and says that the glass is much better in it. The only real difference, AFAIK, is the manual iris and that doesn't seem like a big deal. Oz, correct me if I'm wrong but how often do you change your iris setting WHILE shooting? I find the electronic iris of the XL2 to work well. Yes you can see the change, but it appears to be very consistent.
Matt
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
Another difference (IINM) is that the 16x manual has a motorized servo zoom (as well as full manual zoom), whereas the 14x has no sort of power zoom. So with the 16x you get no manual iris control but power zoom, with the 14x you get real manual iris control but no power zoom.
Another difference (IINM) is that the 16x manual has a motorized servo zoom (as well as full manual zoom), whereas the 14x has no sort of power zoom. So with the 16x you get no manual iris control but power zoom, with the 14x you get real manual iris control but no power zoom.
Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
I think it's a matter of workflow, not so much of how often the iris is adjusted during a shoot. Pressing a button for some has always been associated with more of a consumer's feature rather than something you find on a professional camera, especially when it comes to lens control. The same goes for auto-focus for example, or telling a FreeBSD enthusiast that you surf the 'net with AOL. Wanting a manual iris on the lens is similar to wanting a manual focus, in my opinion.
However, what with digital filmmaking, even those old school curmudgeons have to admit these buttons are here to stay. I saw a good example of this in an article in American Cinematographer magazine. During the filming of Collateral, sometimes the crew would be at a loss over why their image suddenly took on a greenish hue only to find out that a simple dial was shifted on the HD camera they were using. According to that article, this was something the film people had to get used to, but I think those of us who have DV camcorders can relate with (like the unprotected scene-file dial on the first AG-DVX100 for example).
In any case, my suggestion was for price and for the fact that he mentioned dramatic shorts, something the Canon 14X is suited for. Actually, I was for the 16X as well until Charles Papert over on DVInfo mentioned how much he liked it (click on his name for a link). And of course, if you really want to learn the craft.... For me, I'll take either lens! ;D
Fortunately, Century Optics provides wide angle adapters for the 20X and 16X lenses as well should you decide that route. My point is that you don't have to get the 3X and another lens, you can buy a wide angle adapter, save some money, and have almost the best of both worlds.
I think it's a matter of workflow, not so much of how often the iris is adjusted during a shoot. Pressing a button for some has always been associated with more of a consumer's feature rather than something you find on a professional camera, especially when it comes to lens control. The same goes for auto-focus for example, or telling a FreeBSD enthusiast that you surf the 'net with AOL. Wanting a manual iris on the lens is similar to wanting a manual focus, in my opinion.
However, what with digital filmmaking, even those old school curmudgeons have to admit these buttons are here to stay. I saw a good example of this in an article in American Cinematographer magazine. During the filming of Collateral, sometimes the crew would be at a loss over why their image suddenly took on a greenish hue only to find out that a simple dial was shifted on the HD camera they were using. According to that article, this was something the film people had to get used to, but I think those of us who have DV camcorders can relate with (like the unprotected scene-file dial on the first AG-DVX100 for example).
In any case, my suggestion was for price and for the fact that he mentioned dramatic shorts, something the Canon 14X is suited for. Actually, I was for the 16X as well until Charles Papert over on DVInfo mentioned how much he liked it (click on his name for a link). And of course, if you really want to learn the craft.... For me, I'll take either lens! ;D
Fortunately, Century Optics provides wide angle adapters for the 20X and 16X lenses as well should you decide that route. My point is that you don't have to get the 3X and another lens, you can buy a wide angle adapter, save some money, and have almost the best of both worlds.
Re: Can I get by with just 3X Wide Angle?
Yes, you're right, between the two I think a manual focus is more important. I think the button iris control was just something that people were scrutinizing when the XL2 first emerged on the scene.
Let us know if you get that 16X, looks like a great lens. Did you see the article review at DVInfo on the 16X manual lens?
Yes, you're right, between the two I think a manual focus is more important. I think the button iris control was just something that people were scrutinizing when the XL2 first emerged on the scene.
Let us know if you get that 16X, looks like a great lens. Did you see the article review at DVInfo on the 16X manual lens?