Can HVX shoot DV on P2?

[LearningVideo]

Well, I know it is a stupid question and I appologize if it was asked before. What if I wanted to use the HVX to shoot DV, do I have to use tape? or Can I also utilize P2 card to store it? What about via external firewire harddrive?

I know that you can only save DV to tape. HD goes to P2 and firewire. But what about DV to P2?

 

[baquajim]

Yes, you can record DV to P2. Or to the mini-DV tape. Or to an external Firewire harddrive.

 

[LearningVideo]

This is very good to know. Let's say there are two cameras each has 1 P2 card.

Then there is no need for firestore, external harddrive, or anything else.

 

[baquajim]

From my understanding, No. When the card is full, you transfer it to the hard drive of your editing computer and you are ready to edit, there is no need to digitize either.

 

[knightgames]

For clarification purposes:

I can literally turn on my shiney new HVX 100, plug in two P2 cards and record STANDARD DV to the P2 cards. With a setup like that I could record about an hour of STANDARD DV???(two 8 Gig P2 cards)

Maybe I was concentrating so hard on the HD specs, and data rates that I missed this bit of information. It's news to me. If this is true I'll be lining up with everyone else.

Just for the lack of drop outs and speedy transfer of footage into my editing application it's worth it to me.

HD will come in time, but for event videographers it's not prudent for HD..........YET.

 

[Jaime Valles]

For clarification purposes:

I can literally turn on my shiney new HVX 100, plug in two P2 cards and record STANDARD DV to the P2 cards. With a setup like that I could record about an hour of STANDARD DV???(two 8 Gig P2 cards)

Exactly. You can record regular, widescreen MiniDV on the P2 card. With two 8GB cards, you get 64 minutes of DV footage. See this chart for more info:

http://www.p2info.net/articles/misc/p2cardcaps.php

No digitizing, just plug in the P2 card into the card slot on your laptop, and bingo... ready to edit. Or for desktop systems, plug in an cheap, off-the-shelf external firewire or USB2 hard disk to the HVX and dump the contents of the P2 directly in there, bypassing the laptop entirely. Then take the hard disk to your editing station, plug it in and start choppin' away!

No dropouts, no rewinding, no dry vs wet lubricant tape brands, no dirty tape transport heads, instant clip review, ability to delete bad takes immediately, and again... NO DIGITIZING!!!!!!!!! Just plug in the hard disk and edit. And all of this can be done with MiniDV, DVCPro 50, or DVCPro HD.

Shoot a widescreen wedding one day in 480i and hand over a copy of the raw footage tapes to the bride's dad, and edit the final thing off of the P2 version ( it can record to both at the same time, if I'm not mistaken). The next day shoot an indie horror flick in 1080/24p!

The HVX is really the best thing since sliced bread (at least until we actually see some footage!)

 

[knightgames]

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That's exactly what I was hoping for, jrv.
I paid pretty close attention about the HVX200 when details were first released, but missed that. I guess I ASSUMED because there is a mini tape drive that the HVX 200 wouldn't 'record' to P2.

After THIS weekends wedding I'm ready to throw tapes away. Seriously NOT funny.
(EVERY Sony minidv cam I've owned -vx 1000 vx2000 trv 900- has exhibited the drop outs I've experienced. NEVER with my DVX 100)

Looks like I start filling the penny jar again OR is that the PANNY JAR?

 

[FiL]

yes its very exciting as we edge slowly closer to the release date, I can see DV to P2 as quite useful, you eliminate tapes, and of course with 25Mbit DV you're going to have large recording capacities on the p2 cards....


oh and my PC would choke on HD, as cutting DV is enough of a challenge for it, so I'll need a few more pennies

 

[MattC]

I think this is exactly how you have to look at P2 media. Let's face it, why would anyone ever want to shoot DV to tape when you could shoot to P2 and eliminate problems and steps in workflow. The only downside is recording times for higher resolutions, but in time, that will be reduced as well. I don't even know why they bothered putting in a tape drive, I would never use it. (actually I do think I know why, and I guess they did have to appease some folks, but still...)

 

[khmuse]

I wonder if the current inclusion of the miniDV mechanism in the HVX will later give way to a P2 only camera of similar capabilities? I doubt anyone will really miss helical scan tape systems and all their potential problems once they start working with P2 storage. Even at their current costs (which are likely to quickly drop) the P2 work flow seems just as valid for SD projects as it is for HD ones. Personally I can't wait to move on to the HVX and P2 for everything.

 

[Haakon]

Or for desktop systems, plug in an cheap, off-the-shelf external firewire or USB2 hard disk to the HVX and dump the contents of the P2 directly in there, bypassing the laptop entirely. Then take the hard disk to your editing station, plug it in and start choppin' away!

I thought the whole point of the "firestore" trend was that those drives had the necessary controllers built in to handle recording the DV material straight to the hard drive - something that a normal "off the shelf" one could not. If you can just plug any USB hard drive into the camera, what on earth is the point of their $2,000 "P2 Stor" thing and why would anyone want it? I could be wrong, but I think you might be innacurate on this point.

 

[Yas Kassana]

..Or for desktop systems, plug in an cheap, off-the-shelf external firewire or USB2 hard disk to the HVX and dump the contents of the P2 directly in there, bypassing the laptop entirely. Then take the hard disk to your editing station, plug it in and start choppin' away!

I don't think you can do that mate. Your hard disk has to recognise what data is being stored in it first. And what are you going to transfer the P2 cards to??

 

[BBF]

What about Variable Frame rates in SD to P2? Would it be possible to shoot at any of the rumored frame rates besides 480/24P and 480/30P straight to the P2 cards? And since it'd be going to the P2 cards wouldn't 480/60P be possible, instead of 480/60i?

 

[Jaime Valles]

I don't think you can do that mate. Your hard disk has to recognise what data is being stored in it first. And what are you going to transfer the P2 cards to??

You CAN do this, but you must have a P2 card in the camera.

Here's the workflow:

1) Record footage to a P2 card until it get's full.
2) Delete unwanted takes from the P2 card.
3) Plug in an off-the-shelf USB2 or Firewire Hard disk directly to the camera.
4) Transfer the contents of the P2 card into the regular external hard disk.
5) Unplug hard disk and resume shooting.

You don't need a laptop to DUMP the footage from P2 onto hard disk. But you NEED a P2 card for this to work.

The Firestore-type device is for RECORDING DIRECTLY to hard disk, WITHOUT the use of P2 cards. If you don't have P2, you need a hard disk capable of recognizing the type of data it's being sent, etc., which is what the $2000 Firestore is.

Either way, unless you've connected the camera directly to a laptop and are capturing footage into your NLE, you need a P2 card or a Firestore type device.

If you do have a P2 card, you can bypass the laptop entirely, and dump FROM P2 TO EXTERNAL HARD DISK by simply plugging it in to the camera. But you can't RECORD directly to that cheap external hard disk, you can only DUMP footage into it after it's been recorded to P2.

EDIT: You can dump to a USB2 drive, but not to a Firewire drive. My mistake. But you can dump to disk from P2. Also, the Firestore price hasn't been determined yet, and apparently it'll be more in the $1000 ballpark than $2000 I previously said. Cool!

 

[Haakon]

If you do have a P2 card, you can bypass the laptop entirely, and dump FROM P2 TO EXTERNAL HARD DISK by simply plugging it in to the camera. But you can't RECORD directly to that cheap external hard disk, you can only DUMP footage into it after it's been recorded to P2.

Then what's the point of Panasonic's exceedingly expensive "P2 Stor?"

 

[PKraft]

The Firestore-type device is for RECORDING DIRECTLY to hard disk, WITHOUT the use of P2 cards. If you don't have P2, you need a hard disk capable of recognizing the type of data it's being sent, etc., which is what the $2000 Firestore is.

Who says the Firestore will be $2000? The message until now always was "appr. $1000" which would be quite a few dollars less ;-)

 

[Neil Rowe]

Then what's the point of Panasonic's exceedingly expensive "P2 Stor?"

..well to be cllear here, i dont believe you can dump after recording directly to a 1394 drive.. only USB 2.0. to my knowledge what has been confirmed to date is that , the 1394 port will be able to be usedc for direct to disk recording to firestore or laptop, or to output to DVCPRO HD/50/25 or DV deck for recording. I of course would imagine it can output on playback as well. but only USB 2.0 has been stated to be able to dump directly to disk from the camera. some people havent really figured it out yet, but the camera is essentially a computer. It already records data to hard drives in camera.. it just hapens to use solid state raid arrays of SD cards for a drive. so all it has to do is copy the data from it onboard drives..(P2 drives) to the attached USB 2.0 HDD using its own onboard USB2.0 controller. .. which leads many people including myself to ask why the camera cant just record directly to a USB 2.0 drive to begin with..

but at any rate.. the camera CAN transfer data directly to a USB 2.0 drive, it is confirmed and factual already. ..and the usage of a P2 store device is still very pertinent. because it allows for un-interrupted recording.. when your dumping contents of one or more P2 cards to an attached USB 2.0 drive.. you cant record at the same time. your in "dump mode". and all you can do is dump.. lol.. anyway.. so if you have the P2 store, you can pop one card out when its full, and continue recording on the other since the camera automatically switches to the other cards after filling one up.. .. theres no stop in recording. the card will transfer faster than it takes to fill up the other card remaining assuming its empty to begin with. and you can pop it back into the camera, and then the other card will fill up and it will switch back to the original card again and fill it up again while your tranfering the other card to the P2 store.. also the P2 store is much more rugged and reliable than a laptop.. its made for ENG type applications where they dont want some finicky laptop to be crashing or overheating in the desert and all sorts of other normal comuter related issues.. its basically a rock solid backup for the P2 cards in the field for critical applications where you have to know your data will be tranfered reliably and reliably retreived later on. you could use a laptop instead of the P2 sore, but its not near as reliable or rugged for real world run and gun application. .. the P2 store you put a card in and hit a button.. bam your done.. it transfers.. you know when its done.. you pop it out and put it back into the camera.. with a laptop imagine you open it up and its in sleep mode after sitting for a while.. then you have to open up the p2 drive and drag the contents to your destination foldr, or copy paste ..whatever. and if your laptop is running good your all set. anyway the P2 store lets you do multiple cards and is tailored to run n gun ENG type apps where you need a small, portable, quick, and reliable solution.

 

[secretpickle]

I really look forward to the whole P2 workflow. I'm just hoping that 3rd party manufacturers will make some 16gb cards for under 2k each, and I'll be soo set.

 

[Barry_Green]

I thought the whole point of the "firestore" trend was that those drives had the necessary controllers built in to handle recording the DV material straight to the hard drive - something that a normal "off the shelf" one could not.

That is correct.

If you can just plug any USB hard drive into the camera

You can, but not to record to. As Neil said, you can copy the contents of a P2 card onto an external hard disk. You can't record directly to it.

what on earth is the point of their $2,000 "P2 Stor" thing and why would anyone want it?

For most of us, we wouldn't. For a news shooter who needs a quick way to offload a card while he/she's still shooting, that's what the P2 Store is for. It does the same process (copy a P2 card onto a hard disk) but it does it without tying up the camera. Using the P2 Store, you could shoot uninterrupted until the P2 Store's drive was full, by swapping out P2 cards as they fill up. But I don't think most of us will be doing that.

 

[Haakon]

Hm, very interesting. I wasn't aware you could even just plug a hard drive straight into the camera and copy files over (I thought you needed something like the firestore that had a controller on it to tell the files what to do). My guess is that when I get the camera (which hopefully will be very close to the release date - we'll see what the footage/reports from IBC look like!) I'll only be able to afford one P2 card - I just don't have a 10K budget to blow - and I was always planning on bringing a laptop with me to empty the card after it got full of takes. Sounds like if I only have one P2 card with me, a laptop isn't even necessary... I can just bring a little pocket USB2 drive with me, dump and go. That's not shabby at all. When you combine that with the fact that you don't have to capture anything... eesh... I have a feeling that in a year I won't believe I ever messed with DV in the first place. Lol...