California AB-5 Law
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
I live 10 minutes from Oxnard. You don't want any part of California. Contrary to what Old Corpse espouses,
why does almost every single person I know or meet, upon conversation, talks immediately about their plan
for escaping California. Rich, poor, educated, uneducated, blue collar, white collar, business owners, students?
My in laws moved to Idaho last year, my sister moved to Texas four years ago, My mom sold her house since
my stepdad died last year and she's moving to Texas. My little brother, sister and their three kids, working on
moving to North Carolina. My friend who is extremely wealthy and successful, owns three businesses here, moved
to Massachusets two years ago.
For California being so financially successful, how come nobody seems to want to stay here I wonder? The cost of
living in this state is insane, it's a single party rule state which is terrible for everyone, no matter if it's Democrat or
Republican single party rule. I was born here, have never lived in any other state but here and after 50+ years, I can't
wait to leave and will as soon as possible.
I don't want to leave California for taxes, I want to leave because it's rapidly becoming a broken down, third world country
with crumbling infrastructure, soaring crime rates and rampant gang rule in most of the larger cities.
I've produced shoots in east LA where the LA County Sheriffs assigned to me to shut down streets have told me
to have our crew leave this part of east LA before 7:00 PM "because after 7:00 PM, the gangs own this part of
the city, we have no control here, until sunrise, they are so outgunned and out numbered." I won't live in a place
where there is no rule of law.
I've stepped on hypodermic needles (three in one block) and stepped around feces in the streets of
Los Angeles and San Francisco. The policy makers and "leaders" of the big cities in this state are caricatures
of Banana Republic corrupt cops. We have State Senators in prison for gun running to terrorists. We have a Governor
who has openly consorted with convicted murderers, gang bosses, is a public adulterer, unreformed alcoholic and is
one of the most corrupt politicians of the past Century in America.
California is evolving to a third world nation for the rich and the poor who wait on them, do their housekeeping, gardening and then
go home to live in the barrios. For anyone who thinks California is paradise and everything is great here, what reality do you live in?
I moved from LA to SoFla for various reasons in 2001. Being a big sports fan, I'd occasionally email a bunch of the Miami Herald sportswriters. I asked one, "Since you do national TV, why not move to LA? Hollywood, the media center of the sporting universe, etc.?" He replies, "I've had plenty of offers but I calculated that I'd need to make four times as much to have the same standards of living as I have here in Miami" (I have no idea what part of Miami he lives in; prices vary greatly depending on the proximity to the ocean) Prices in SoFla have gone up since then but he has his own TV show now anyway.
In terms of the real estate prices, there's a huge drop from the recently built oceanfront condos to older mid-high rises a few blocks off the sand. There are $30,000,000+ penthouses on the beach in Sunny Isles and $200,000 one-bedroom units just a couple of blocks from the beach. The unit sizes are obviously different but price-per-foot can range from $2,000 down to $200 (a touch-up is likely to be required). I haven't looked up the LA prices in a while but a friend lives in Thousand Oaks and his house is about $400/ft2 despite being almost a rural terrain. In Florida, if one doesn't mind living 5-10 miles off the beach - many gated communities have own pools, gyms and tennis courts - prices can fall below $100/ft2.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I know we’re getting kind of off topic, but just the property values and traffic alone seems like enough to keep most sane people away. I used to go to CA once, maybe twice a year to shoot and every single time, it was the traffic that pushed me over the edge. 24/7. How do people do it? And then how does the average person afford a decent place to live? Who cares if the state has the highest average income, or whatever, if the cost of living strips it away completely, and then some? And then throw in the other things that Dan mentions. Yeah, head west young man...
That friend from TO was driving to the Westside last Saturday. The traffic was backed up at Tampa (on 101)
That said, Collins is often the same thing. Small road repair/lane closure/car accident and it's a three mile jam. The funniest thing I ever saw was some SUV rear-ending a boat.
That said, Collins is often the same thing. Small road repair/lane closure/car accident and it's a three mile jam. The funniest thing I ever saw was some SUV rear-ending a boat.
There is only one reason we live west of the Pecos. The weather. No place in the States compares to coastal California for weather. I've lived in the Midwest. I know what crappy weather and mosquitoes and tornadoes and rained out events, and ticks, and snow and freezing weather are about. I'll be in my t-shirt today, with my green grass and song birds, enjoying another day in paradise. How long will it last? We'll stay here as long as we can afford it. But we talk often about moving because of the expense. One of our neighbors siblings has an empty lot that sits idle because the county wants $60,000 in fees to build. When I built my house 15 years ago it was $6000. California excels in making the poor, poorer.
LA and San Francisco have been toilets for quite a while. Big conventions are no longer booking in these cities because they have become so unattractive.
LA and San Francisco have been toilets for quite a while. Big conventions are no longer booking in these cities because they have become so unattractive.
Yes, no question people have an affection and perhaps need for it. I missed the changing seasons a bit at first. I really missed thunderstorms. I don't give a toss about it now. There's no way I'd go back and put up with four weeks of good weather unless I have to.
I understand it big time. As a Midwesterner, I looked upon good weather people as weak, lacking a certain hardiness. As Seinfeld put it, LA isn't funny. Not only does it not have seasons, it has no character. It's bland homogeneous nothing.
I understand it big time. As a Midwesterner, I looked upon good weather people as weak, lacking a certain hardiness. As Seinfeld put it, LA isn't funny. Not only does it not have seasons, it has no character. It's bland homogeneous nothing.
vertigoanton
Active member
All the economic criticism of CA is fair, but do folks in here really feel the same way Seinfeld does re: the character and homogeneity?
I have two friends in California who are thinking of moving once they retire or become empty nesters. None wants a colder climate but they also are not too crazy about the South Florida heat. One grew up in SoCal, so he doesn't want to completely sever the ties and is pondering Arizona. The other has a 100% WAF. I'll send them a Zillow link now and again but generally tell them they'll need to fly over, rent a car and drive around a little. FWIW, coastal Central Florida isn't as hot as and a lot cheaper than the Miami-Fort Lauderdale metro area but it also has a rural feel. And, if you go all the way up to the Panhandle, you might even get an occasional snowfall.
All this complaining about CA is really pretty comical, a collection of personal hot takes and bias that somehow gets mistaken as reality. Reality is in statistics and in facts based on research, not just personal anecdotes and individual prejudice. And for those, I've provided plenty of links in this thread: yes, a lot of people are leaving, but those are on average lower income and lower education than the people who are coming TO CA - so the net is that Californians are becoming wealthier yet. It's a free country and people should move wherever they feel best - and while a lot people and businesses move out, others move to California to live their dreams and start businesses, and as research shows, those are some of the most innovative and creative people and businesses anywhere on the planet. You can dismiss the economic power of CA, but the numbers don't lie.
Does CA have problems? Yes. Tell me, which place on this earth does NOT have problems? I hear there are no problems in Heaven, but I've never been there, so I can't tell you what the research shows. Cost of living is absolutely a big problem in CA - although it's comical that people cite this as proof of how undesirable it is to live in CA... only an economic illiterate doesn't understand that it's proof of the opposite - so many wealthy people from all over the country and indeed the world want to live here that the demand has pushed up prices into the stratosphere. Now, I don't think most wealthy people are so stupid that they don't know what they're doing with their money, and they are in a better position to compare to elsewhere in the world, and yet choose CA. Must be all that bad quality of living in CA that causes that, and wealthy people who could settle anywhere in the world overwhelmingly buy into CA... they must be very stupid, whereas the real geniuses go to Idaho, and the smart ones go to low cost Appalachia. Weird that the people all over the world living such high cost of living countries and cities, whether Japan, Switzerland, Paris or Vancouver don't just move to the more desirable low cost countries or cities like Somalia, Bangladesh, Kampala and Mississippi.
So, if you want to leave, leave, there are plenty who would give their first born to be granted the privilege of living in CA, just to be given a chance. By all means, move and let someone else come here - someone who has the gumption, creativity, ability to compete, determination and sheer talent, as has been the history of CA to this day, to build their lives in the most creative and productive place on planet earth.
Here's the kicker. All those homeless that we all - rightly - complain about. I had an occasion not too long ago to hear from the police chief of Santa Monica, CA. She mentioned that almost without exception, the homeless in Santa Monica are not homeless Santa Monicans - they are people from other places, out of state and not infrequently out of country, and amazingly, fully 25% of the homeless in Santa Monica came to CA in order to make it in the entertainment business! They come here to make it in films and when the money runs out, they end up homeless. Now, that is specific to Santa Monica (the 25% entertainment industry failures), but CA is a magnet for homeless from all over - partially due to generous welfare policies, and the mild weather and the fact that it's seen as a place where dreams come true... unlike say, West Virginia; yes, there are many native Californians who are also homeless, but the numbers tell the story. Too bad dreamers don't all trek to Alabama for some reason... weird, huh. But what do you propose to do about it? Don't feed them, so there are no incentives? That's the approach in many states - so they come to CA. Perhaps we should be far more heartless. Then there are all those states that provide their homeless with one way bus tickets to CA, to offload their problems on CA... I guess it's not enough that CA is supporing welfare leech red states through the tax system, where federal taxes from CA go to support so many proud "no tax" states which then turn around and ship their homeless to CA. In one of the links I provided, it showed how CA is powering the growth of states around it - it is the economic engine that is pulling the whole USA. AND CA is taking on disproportionate number of poor people from other states to help the whole country - you're welcome.
And many of us are proud Californians who have zero desire to leave. I've lived in many countries for extended periods of time, all over the world. I've traveled extensively and lived in other states. I am happy to live in CA. I fly both the USA flag and the CA flag at home - I'm a patriot. I'm here, because I love it here. A funny thing a friend recently mentioned to me, remember how certain folks used to say "Love it or leave it" - funny thing, how things turn around, because now WE can say "back at ya!"... you're always free to leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out! We will continue to Make CA Great! (see, stole that one as well, ha, ha!).
Does CA have problems? Yes. Tell me, which place on this earth does NOT have problems? I hear there are no problems in Heaven, but I've never been there, so I can't tell you what the research shows. Cost of living is absolutely a big problem in CA - although it's comical that people cite this as proof of how undesirable it is to live in CA... only an economic illiterate doesn't understand that it's proof of the opposite - so many wealthy people from all over the country and indeed the world want to live here that the demand has pushed up prices into the stratosphere. Now, I don't think most wealthy people are so stupid that they don't know what they're doing with their money, and they are in a better position to compare to elsewhere in the world, and yet choose CA. Must be all that bad quality of living in CA that causes that, and wealthy people who could settle anywhere in the world overwhelmingly buy into CA... they must be very stupid, whereas the real geniuses go to Idaho, and the smart ones go to low cost Appalachia. Weird that the people all over the world living such high cost of living countries and cities, whether Japan, Switzerland, Paris or Vancouver don't just move to the more desirable low cost countries or cities like Somalia, Bangladesh, Kampala and Mississippi.
So, if you want to leave, leave, there are plenty who would give their first born to be granted the privilege of living in CA, just to be given a chance. By all means, move and let someone else come here - someone who has the gumption, creativity, ability to compete, determination and sheer talent, as has been the history of CA to this day, to build their lives in the most creative and productive place on planet earth.
Here's the kicker. All those homeless that we all - rightly - complain about. I had an occasion not too long ago to hear from the police chief of Santa Monica, CA. She mentioned that almost without exception, the homeless in Santa Monica are not homeless Santa Monicans - they are people from other places, out of state and not infrequently out of country, and amazingly, fully 25% of the homeless in Santa Monica came to CA in order to make it in the entertainment business! They come here to make it in films and when the money runs out, they end up homeless. Now, that is specific to Santa Monica (the 25% entertainment industry failures), but CA is a magnet for homeless from all over - partially due to generous welfare policies, and the mild weather and the fact that it's seen as a place where dreams come true... unlike say, West Virginia; yes, there are many native Californians who are also homeless, but the numbers tell the story. Too bad dreamers don't all trek to Alabama for some reason... weird, huh. But what do you propose to do about it? Don't feed them, so there are no incentives? That's the approach in many states - so they come to CA. Perhaps we should be far more heartless. Then there are all those states that provide their homeless with one way bus tickets to CA, to offload their problems on CA... I guess it's not enough that CA is supporing welfare leech red states through the tax system, where federal taxes from CA go to support so many proud "no tax" states which then turn around and ship their homeless to CA. In one of the links I provided, it showed how CA is powering the growth of states around it - it is the economic engine that is pulling the whole USA. AND CA is taking on disproportionate number of poor people from other states to help the whole country - you're welcome.
And many of us are proud Californians who have zero desire to leave. I've lived in many countries for extended periods of time, all over the world. I've traveled extensively and lived in other states. I am happy to live in CA. I fly both the USA flag and the CA flag at home - I'm a patriot. I'm here, because I love it here. A funny thing a friend recently mentioned to me, remember how certain folks used to say "Love it or leave it" - funny thing, how things turn around, because now WE can say "back at ya!"... you're always free to leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out! We will continue to Make CA Great! (see, stole that one as well, ha, ha!).
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Run&Gun
Veteran
That's about the funniest thing I've read in this entire thread. I guess jingoism isn't just for nations.
It's only funny if you don't live in CA and therefore don't know much about it - and furthermore have no exposure to other cultures (yeah, big surprise). I have many friends and acquaintances from other parts of the world, and I see and hear the endless stories of extremely talented people who desperately seek an H-1B visa so that they can come to CA and work in Silicon Valley, others who are here, doing brilliant work, and making monumental efforts to convert the H-1B visa into a permanent one, so they can start their own businesses here in CA. Tons of people from China and India, yes (take a good look at who works in Silicon Valley, making this state the great economic engine that it is), but also people from all over Europe. It's very hard to come to CA legally - and these are people who are ready to make tremendous contributions. Now, those are outstanding talented and creative people, but there are also the even greater number of enterpreneurial people who have the money or ideas and want to live the California Dream - we have whole regions here in the county and surrounding areas that have incredibly vibrant Chinese and Indian communities (San Gabriel Valley, Monterrey Park, Artesia etc.) that are almost entirely composed of immigrants, all who have made extreme efforts to be able to uproot their whole lives just for the privilege of trying their luck in CA. Not to mention whole districts for recent Korean immigrants - three times more than the next nearest state by number of Korean immigrants, starting businesses and being successful. And so on - for millions upon millions who are banging on the door, and coming to CA above any other state. Because they know - unlike some native losers who have lost their can-do spirit - that the land of opportunity is CALIFORNIA. But to know all this, one would have to actually interact with other cultures and see beyond the surface - which I guess exceeds the imagination of some who only look from a distance, and therefore find FACTS (look up statistics on the prime destination for immigrants by state, where CA is #1) funny, as they're ignorant of them. These are dynamic contributors who make this state great - and this country was built by the talent of immigrants over generations. Today, CA is #1, in no small part thanks to immigrants and their immediate descendants - just look at how many companies that the whole world admires and envies were started or led by first or second generation immigrants, whether Apple, or Google, Intel or any number of Elon Musk's companies. In fact 55% of all American billion dollar startups have an immigrant founder, and the vast majority of them are located in CA:
55% Of America's Billion-Dollar Startups Have An Immigrant Founder
"These companies are not only valuable but they employ a lot of people. Among privately held billion-dollar startup companies, those with immigrant founders have created an average of more than 1,200 jobs per company, the vast majority in the U.S.
The collective value of the 50 immigrant-founded companies is $248 billon. To put this in perspective, that is more than the value of all the companies listed on the stock market of several countries, including Argentina, Columbia and Ireland.
As you might imagine, many of the companies are based in Silicon Valley. California is the headquarters of 33 of the 50 immigrant-founded companies, followed by New York (8), Massachusetts (5), Illinois (2), Florida (1) and Washington state (1).
America’s ability to attract international students fosters entrepreneurship. About 23% (21 of 91) of the billion-dollar startup companies had a founder who first came to America as an international student."
LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS! CALIFORNIA - 33 companies and the next greatest is NY at only 8! CALIFORNIA RULES!!!!
So while some only have ignorant laughter, I have facts and links and studies.
CA is successful in great part, because of those who come to us - and the countless ambitious and talented immigrants all over the world who would love nothing more than for just a chance to come to CA (strangely, not Idaho) and make it. I urge those who only have ignorance and hate for this wonderful land to please surrender your place in this great state so that an actual contributor can come and MAKE CALIFORNIA GREAT AS ALWAYS. Meanwhile, keep laughing.
55% Of America's Billion-Dollar Startups Have An Immigrant Founder
"These companies are not only valuable but they employ a lot of people. Among privately held billion-dollar startup companies, those with immigrant founders have created an average of more than 1,200 jobs per company, the vast majority in the U.S.
The collective value of the 50 immigrant-founded companies is $248 billon. To put this in perspective, that is more than the value of all the companies listed on the stock market of several countries, including Argentina, Columbia and Ireland.
As you might imagine, many of the companies are based in Silicon Valley. California is the headquarters of 33 of the 50 immigrant-founded companies, followed by New York (8), Massachusetts (5), Illinois (2), Florida (1) and Washington state (1).
America’s ability to attract international students fosters entrepreneurship. About 23% (21 of 91) of the billion-dollar startup companies had a founder who first came to America as an international student."
LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS! CALIFORNIA - 33 companies and the next greatest is NY at only 8! CALIFORNIA RULES!!!!
So while some only have ignorant laughter, I have facts and links and studies.
CA is successful in great part, because of those who come to us - and the countless ambitious and talented immigrants all over the world who would love nothing more than for just a chance to come to CA (strangely, not Idaho) and make it. I urge those who only have ignorance and hate for this wonderful land to please surrender your place in this great state so that an actual contributor can come and MAKE CALIFORNIA GREAT AS ALWAYS. Meanwhile, keep laughing.
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Just got off the phone with a TO friend. Now sure how but the conversation drifted to the apartment rentals. He's online. "Good neighborhoods in LA" such as Brentwood or West LA are as high $4/ft sq. Studio City, Universal City, Toluca Lake, $2'ish to $3+. Then I tell him, "Look up Weston" (a well-to-do suburb of Miami that's quite far from the ocean). He finds at ~ $1.50/ ft sq, new building, lake views, gym, pool, tennis court. Says, "If my wife approves".
C'mon now Corpse. We live to complain. That's the sport of it. One day when I was an employee at Skywalker Ranch, I realized how jaded, petty, and spoiled I was and also realized no matter how good we have it, we want more. I lived in one of the best places on earth and had a job that I had to pinch myself to believe I had (I really did. At lunch time I'd go for a walk and actually pinch my arm in awe of what I had) and I STILL complained. I was still unsatisfied. Once I realized that, I had a big laugh at myself to see how easily I got wrapped up in it all.
I am spoiled. I have it better than 99.5% of the world. But I still get to complain about bloody overpriced California, no matter how many people want to hand over their baby in trade.
I am spoiled. I have it better than 99.5% of the world. But I still get to complain about bloody overpriced California, no matter how many people want to hand over their baby in trade.
Paul, I get it - I complain with the rest of them, and maybe more 
Look, there are plenty of faults in CA. Plenty. I complain about it all the time. I have a history of complaining on this board about even petty stuff that others have criticized me for (for example, I was very upset - still am - about how you actually need to get a permit to shoot a film in your own apartment). The red tape is insane. The business-unfriendliness drives me up the wall. I hate the traffic with a passion. I could go on and on.
Here's the difference - I know this is just reality ALL OVER THE WORLD - and when people pour unearned hatred on this place, without the balance of seeing all the good, I think that's BS, and I call it out. Like I say, I'm a patriot. I still criticize my country/state like crazy - and that's BECAUSE I'm a patriot and want to make it better. But I'll be damned if I'll allow some ignoramus to slag off my country/state from a position of hate... then it's fightin' time.
See, CA really is a mixture like so much in this world. CA is #1 in so many metrics, it's not funny, it's like to steal ANOTHER LINE - we're so often #1, that I'm TIRED OF WINNING sometimes. But I can also see all the flaws - now, instead of saying "well then, I'll leave", I stay and FIGHT to make it better because, damn it, it's MY HOME, and I'll be ****** if I'll let anyone run me off from here!
And like I always say - if you hate it, well, there's the door. The weak, the tired or retired, the ones who can't keep up, the ones who can't compete, the ones who can't hack it, tthe whatever else - they'll leave, and that's fine, and I wish them luck, because they'll be replaced by the appreciative, the determined, the ambitious, the visionaries - thus it always was, built by pioneers and immigrants, the brave and the strong. Natural selection - and CA is #1 yet again!
Look, there are plenty of faults in CA. Plenty. I complain about it all the time. I have a history of complaining on this board about even petty stuff that others have criticized me for (for example, I was very upset - still am - about how you actually need to get a permit to shoot a film in your own apartment). The red tape is insane. The business-unfriendliness drives me up the wall. I hate the traffic with a passion. I could go on and on.
Here's the difference - I know this is just reality ALL OVER THE WORLD - and when people pour unearned hatred on this place, without the balance of seeing all the good, I think that's BS, and I call it out. Like I say, I'm a patriot. I still criticize my country/state like crazy - and that's BECAUSE I'm a patriot and want to make it better. But I'll be damned if I'll allow some ignoramus to slag off my country/state from a position of hate... then it's fightin' time.
See, CA really is a mixture like so much in this world. CA is #1 in so many metrics, it's not funny, it's like to steal ANOTHER LINE - we're so often #1, that I'm TIRED OF WINNING sometimes. But I can also see all the flaws - now, instead of saying "well then, I'll leave", I stay and FIGHT to make it better because, damn it, it's MY HOME, and I'll be ****** if I'll let anyone run me off from here!
And like I always say - if you hate it, well, there's the door. The weak, the tired or retired, the ones who can't keep up, the ones who can't compete, the ones who can't hack it, tthe whatever else - they'll leave, and that's fine, and I wish them luck, because they'll be replaced by the appreciative, the determined, the ambitious, the visionaries - thus it always was, built by pioneers and immigrants, the brave and the strong. Natural selection - and CA is #1 yet again!
Run&Gun
Veteran
Okay, If I lived in some third world country or in poverty and squalor, I most definitely would see the appeal and and draw to come to someplace where it seems dreams can come true. But you make it sound like EVERYONE wants to come there and if they can't see that then they're fools. There are people in this very thread that live there and say that they want out. Are they fools? Or do they just want a life that they can't get there, but can somewhere else? I myself have zero desire to live in this land of milk and honey, as you make it sound. Why would I? So I can have more competition? Make less money for the same work? Have a higher cost of living? Have a higher cost of housing? Fight more traffic? Suffer through more bureaucracy? But I could say, hey I live in CA. You love CA, that's obvious. We get it. That's fine. That's great. I love my state, too. To each, their own. But not everyone has to live in CA and site paragraphs of statistics to justify why everyone else should want to, too. I'm pretty far from CA in lot's of ways, but I bet there are plenty of people there that would give their first born to have my life here. OC, it's not the information that you present that ruffles feathers, it's the way you present it. You come across as if you're on a soapbox standing above the unwashed masses and they're fools for not heading your words.
This country is more than just CA and NY and there are lots of successful business and successful, happy people in these other places, too.