C500: C500 New at $6,999 is it worth it?
- Thread starter B.Berry
- Start date
control4userguy
Well-known member
Well I guess so. Seeing how B&H is selling the pair for $12k... Is that from a local dealer?
NorBro
Major Contributor
B&H hasn't updated their pricing for the combo yet (surprisingly), but here's the correct pricing via Adorama:
http://www.adorama.com/cac500efok.html
http://www.adorama.com/cac500efok.html
puredrifting
Major Contributor
No DPAF. That alone relegates it to narrative filmmaking type of shooting for many. It's weird, back in the day, all of our Betacams, DigiBeta and F900/Varicam cameras were manual focus only but somehow, with a B4 lens and a good B&W CRT viewfinder, pulling focus was so easy. Smaller sensors, high quality servo lenses. But when you are shooting 4K S35 imagers with the just barely adequate Canon eyepiece, it can be difficult to always achieve crisp, sharp focus in 4k. If you have a focus puller, big monitor and are using cine lenses, one of the best deals available. But most of us are shooting corporate, documentary, EPK, BTS, short form promo, sports, etc. For those uses, DPAF has become a valuable tool. Also, the C500 is old technology, but then again so are the F55 and F5 and they are still going strong. If the C500 had DPAF, I would buy it with the Odyssey over the C300 MKII, having the multiple Logs is nice but not a deal breaker that the C500 doesn't, at least for me.
anatusa
Veteran
zacuto eye EVF and u good to go...
But also think about that: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...yssey-7q-recording-cheat-sheet&highlight=C500
But also think about that: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...yssey-7q-recording-cheat-sheet&highlight=C500
puredrifting
Major Contributor
But then you are up to C300 MKII money and all of the allure is gone, at least for me. Under $10k including the Odyssey sounds tasty. Going over $10k and you might as well buy the newest technology, the C300 MKII. Amazing DPAF, C-Log 2, 3, etc.
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It just seems like such a good camera for $7,000 (plus a little tax) and you get a warranty, also it's the quality image this camera can put out from 1080 - 4k raw, with very little work needed in the CC department, and along with the Q7+ and an Zacuto Gratical Eye you're still coming in $12,000 and a bit for a brand new camera! You could also finance the camera if you got the credit, at 0% for two years. It really is tempting.
Broatch Berry
Venice CA
Broatch Berry
Venice CA
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Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
And Adorama sells the Body for more than the kit with the 7Q+.
Anyway, I contacted B&H about the price difference:
Erm...Yes.
cpreston
Veteran
But the Zacuto can't even let you monitor the 4K signal, so you are still guessing at critical focus.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Show B&H Adorama's price and they may match it. Business is weird. The industry is hurting these days and nothing is set in stone.
I'm sure someone must have used the C500 with the Gratical Eye, maybe if anyone has used this set up they could chime in. I know the viewfinder on the Sony F55 and F5 are not 4K, and you can find focus shooting 4k on those. I here the Zacuto is a better viewfinder than the Sony?
Broatch Berry
Venice CA
Broatch Berry
Venice CA
anatusa
Veteran
red has 6k sensor and now the new one is 8k.... but their EVF is just 1080p.... Black magic is the same, just like any other cams...
so what ? red users and others cant see the focus? strange statements u make guys....
with Sony F5/55 i believe its better to use their own evf as it represents almost 14 stops of dr...
so what ? red users and others cant see the focus? strange statements u make guys....
with Sony F5/55 i believe its better to use their own evf as it represents almost 14 stops of dr...
cpreston
Veteran
Does the EVF on any of those cameras have a 1:1 magnification feature?
Maybe it doesn't matter an people are just used to racking back and forth and guessing at critical focus or always use an aperture at which the depth of field hides the fact that you aren't entirely sure about your focal plane. I don't know. All I know is that I have been screwed using a less that 1080p monitor to judge focus on an HD camera and I will not buy another EVF until I can punch in on 4K to judge focus.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
We sold a number of Odyssey7Q units to Canon USA for them to market as a kit with the C500. That is what B&H is selling and apparently Canon USA did not adjust the price on that particular kit item. Adorama put together its own kitting.
Mitch, if it was you buying this combination C500 and Odyssey, would you get the upgrade to the Q7+? Seems like there isn't much difference in price right now with what I see new and used. Whats next for Convergent Design 2017. A big shout out to Dan Keaton, saved my ass at least three times with quick what to do? with problems in the field.
Broatch Berry
Venice CA
Broatch Berry
Venice CA
I don't think such statements are strange. EVFs have had less than desirable resolution for a very long time. 720P leaves a lot to be desired. 1080P less so, but still. A 4K EVF would be great! Of course, no point in making a 4K EVF or even 1080P w/4K input unless they can do so without delay in the displayed image. An EVF with too long delay would be pretty useless.
I haven't used Zacuto EVFs on C500 (I use one on my C300mk2 all the time!), here's what you need to look for:
- Zacuto EVF only displays HD, no 2K. So 2K out of C500 must be scaled to HD before feeding EVF. C300mk2 can do this, I think C500 can too..?
- Zacuto EVF is 4:2:2 only afaik, so can't be connected to an output that is 444.
- Zacuto EVF only reads 3G SDI Level A. F.ex. C300mk2 defaults to Level B, but is switchable. Not sure about C500.
- Zacuto EVF LUTs are 1D, so don't look great. Better to use LUT in camera, if possible. Or other kind of LUT device if feeding signal to client.
- I like my Zacuto EVF in 16:9, a little less in 1.89 due to needed downscaling, and not very much at all in 2x Anamorphic since it displays silly sidebars in addition to the letter boxing and the image gets very small. Would be better with 2.39 edge to edge.
- Lots of other good things to say, but not relevant to the C500 question at hand.
And btw.: Not sure why anybody would display 14 stops of DR in their Sony F55 EVFs. I worked with F55 before it could add LUT to it's EVF (about a year ago? Or less?) and the super flat image in the EVF drove me crazy. Impossible to see focus!
Mitch Gross
Veteran
For use with the C500, there is no functional difference between the Odyssey7Q and the Odyssey7Q+. The only differences between the two devices is the inputs. The Odyssey7Q can only accept HD up to 1080p30 over HDMI while the 7Q+ can also accept 1080p60, UHD30p, and DCI4K24p. The Odyssey7Q can only accept 3G signals over SDI, while the SDI A & SDI B inputs on the Odyssey7Q+ can accept 6G signals from sources such as the Blackmagic Design cameras. No other differences.
We always have new ideas for the future, but we're keeping them close to the vest. Last week's introduction of Titan applies to both the Odyssey7Q as well as the Odyssey7Q+, and it also is available for Apollo.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
It would be pretty pointless to make a 4K viewfinder. The pixel pitch would be so small that it would be impossible to delineate the resolving image. There is simply a point beyond which we cannot judge focus, but there is also a point beyond which any technology cannot present focus. If the pitch is too tight, then bleed between the pixels eliminates resolution.