C500 MKII Leaked on Canon Rumors

[Guest]

If AI could help my dodgy hips, bad back or get me up for a shoot at 4:00 AM I'ld be all for it

Side note; I shot a piece with Satya Nadella, the boss of Microsoft, discussing AI. Be afraid, very afraid...

Ergorig can help with the shoulder and back a little. It is the first “Assist” tool i really like. Takes the weight off the shoulder, but keeps the mobility. One of the most simple and user helpful cameras tools. Has a tube and lever for near instant low mode. Very very cool rig. Looks like it would be restrictive, but i found i didn’t lose any mobility. Will most likely be my next purchase. Such great kit.

 

[indiawilds]

Cinema 5d article - https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-c500-mark-ii-lowlight-test-6k-raw-clip-download/

raw test:

10 bit low light:

After watching these two clips, one can visualise many creative possibilities. Very impressive.

 

[cpreston]

I found this test very well done for comparing the IQ of the camera and how it handles colors and roll off.

https://youtu.be/hV2yvzYzix4

 

[Run&Gun]

Ergorig can help with the shoulder and back a little. It is the first “Assist” tool i really like. Takes the weight off the shoulder, but keeps the mobility. One of the most simple and user helpful cameras tools. Has a tube and lever for near instant low mode. Very very cool rig. Looks like it would be restrictive, but i found i didn’t lose any mobility. Will most likely be my next purchase. Such great kit.

I've posted about this before, because I bought one:
https://steadygum.com/

About the same price as the Ergorig, but much lower profile, in both use and storage/transport. I can throw it in my support gear back-pack that I carry my batts and stuff in.

It works for me and everyone that I've let use it, likes it and has said they will probably buy one(most are older than me, from just a few years to over a decade). I let a friend use it for a three or four day show that he was doing handheld on and he said it was worth every penny. And he's the type that is very skeptical on "toys".

 

[Grug]

I found this test very well done for comparing the IQ of the camera and how it handles colors and roll off.

https://youtu.be/hV2yvzYzix4

That's a handy test. Not surprisingly the Canon wins by a mile, but it's nice to have the reference point.

It's clearly holding a couple of stops more in total latitude over the BM. But it's good to see other qualities too, like the rolloff into clipping - which is much smoother. And the colour channels which seem a good deal more resistant to clipping in the hyper saturated RGB LED test.

 

[Guest]

I've posted about this before, because I bought one:
https://steadygum.com/

About the same price as the Ergorig, but much lower profile, in both use and storage/transport. I can throw it in my support gear back-pack that I carry my batts and stuff in.

It works for me and everyone that I've let use it, likes it and has said they will probably buy one(most are older than me, from just a few years to over a decade). I let a friend use it for a three or four day show that he was doing handheld on and he said it was worth every penny. And he's the type that is very skeptical on "toys".

No where near as good as the Ergorig for cinema.

 

[Guest]

That's a handy test. Not surprisingly the Canon wins by a mile, but it's nice to have the reference point.

It's clearly holding a couple of stops more in total latitude over the BM. But it's good to see other qualities too, like the rolloff into clipping - which is much smoother. And the colour channels which seem a good deal more resistant to clipping in the hyper saturated RGB LED test.

Big +1!


That is the main reason i still spend money and time on other cameras. I just can’t get into the BM highlights. I suppose if i only shot soft light, or had tons of ambient fill available on demand, i’d consider BM, but C500 and other cinema cameras still deserve their place. The whole bang for buck mentality over hypes the BM cameras.

That said, bang for buck where bang for buck is due.

 

[yoclay]

I've posted about this before, because I bought one:
https://steadygum.com/

About the same price as the Ergorig, but much lower profile, in both use and storage/transport. I can throw it in my support gear back-pack that I carry my batts and stuff in.

It works for me and everyone that I've let use it, likes it and has said they will probably buy one(most are older than me, from just a few years to over a decade). I let a friend use it for a three or four day show that he was doing handheld on and he said it was worth every penny. And he's the type that is very skeptical on "toys".

I would not pay $1800 for that. I bought something similar years ago for $40.

 

[Grug]

Here's some new (walkaround) low-light footage (shot 10-bit Raw 50fps) that's a lot more to my personal taste:

Really wish Canon would put out some more conventionally produced footage, so we can see how it looks under normal conditions. But this footage does give me more hope than the other walkaround footage I've seen to date.

 

[Run&Gun]

No where near as good as the Ergorig for cinema.

I don’t shoot “cinema” ; ) It’s designed mostly for ENG/Doc.

 

[Run&Gun]

I would not pay $1800 for that. I bought something similar years ago for $40.

And I remember guys having something very similar, years ago in the 80’s/early 90’s, too, but haven’t seen them anywhere in a long while. Even finding the “monopod VCT” attachment is hard, now. The only one I can find being made today, is by Lanparte and it looks way less sturdy and it doesn’t pivot.

Is the price high? Yes. But look at it in context: if you’re a $1600-$2000 a day cameraman with ~$70K+ worth of camera/lens sitting on your shoulder and it makes your job easier/better, the cost is pretty inconsequential and you’ve forgotten about it by your next credit card billing cycle.

 

[puredrifting]

And I remember guys having something very similar, years ago in the 80’s/early 90’s, too, but haven’t seen them anywhere in a long while. Even finding the “monopod VCT” attachment is hard, now. The only one I can find being made today, is by Lanparte and it looks way less sturdy and it doesn’t pivot.

Is the price high? Yes. But look at it in context: if you’re a $1600-$2000 a day cameraman with ~$70K+ worth of camera/lens sitting on your shoulder and it makes your job easier/better, the cost is pretty inconsequential and you’ve forgotten about it by your next credit card billing cycle.

I keep looking at this thing and I believe Run & Gun that it makes life good. But my cheap side keeps saying, I could make this thing for $300.00, it's not that proprietary.

I did the same thing in the era when the Kino Flo Divas came out. Rented 'em, liked 'em, but always thought they were a rip off for what they were, $1,400.00 for some Coroplast, a ballast and some bulbs. So I made my own, for about $250.00 and they were
better than the actual Divas, other than for travel, they were too heavy, although I did fly with them to Branson, MS to shoot an Andy Williams documentary with Mr. Williams at his theater. They worked great. I found high end aquarium light ballasts that were
higher speed than the ones Kino used, better reflectors with more output. But I got lazy with the lollipop mount and the tubes, drove over to
Kino in Burbank and bought the Lollipop and tubes from them. My DIY Divas cost me $250.00 in parts at the time and I used them for a decade.

Nothing against Kino, I love their products, I just get tired of being ripped off in our business because of inadequate economies of scale. I get it, niche market with tiny sales unit numbers so have to boost the profit margins sky high
to make the product financially viable. I'm looking at buying some new Lectrosonics SRc and a couple of transmitters and $6K is insane. But how many pro sound mixers are there in the
world, not that many, right? And I can't make my own Lectros. But imagine if someone like Apple or Samsung made a Lectro quality dual channel microphone system and there was a huge
demand for them. They'd be $600.00 a set if someone was cranking out and selling millions of them. Economies of scale are an amazing phenomena.

This thing seems the same, I can't see any "magic". What about starting with heavy duty belt webbing with mylon buckle, rent a SteadyGUM and go to my favorite upholstery shop in Oxnard with it and have the upholsterer copy the
holder in leather or naugahyde and attach it to the web belt? That would cost next to nothing, few hundred maybe? The hardware just seems like the monopod we all have laying around? Is there some secret sauce we are all missing fron the still photos?

I don't begrudge anyone making a good profit but almost $2k for this seems ridiculous. Unless you don't DIY or are simply too busy to backwards engineer things to save $1,500.00? And if people are too
busy and want to pay the nearly $2k, bravo, good problem to have. Seems like a great product at a ripoff price. I would easily pay $600-$800, but $1,899.00. Nah.

 

[Run&Gun]

...I just get tired of being ripped off in our business because of inadequate economies of scale. I get it, niche market with tiny sales unit numbers so have to boost the profit margins sky high to make the product financially viable.

Yep. I've said similar for years. Imagine what our cameras would cost if they were being sold in the millions around the globe, instead of just a few hundred to few thousand copies(or some in the 10's). I mean we still wouldn't have $200 Alexa's, but...

 

[Guest]

I don’t shoot “cinema” ; )

We know. You remind us often.

The two worlds do collide now though. Hopefully they all can learn from eachother and take the good from all sides of camera work.

The steadygum looks like it is good for stationary work. Press conference, sidelines, etc.

The Ergorig is for running around and getting into the moment, being spontantious. Operating very similar to normal handheld and shoulder work, but less strain on the one shoulder.

 

[puredrifting]

Yep. I've said similar for years. Imagine what our cameras would cost if they were being sold in the millions around the globe, instead of just a few hundred to few thousand copies(or some in the 10's). I mean we still wouldn't have $200 Alexa's, but...

Yep, a $200.00 Alexa would be pretty cool ;-) I just look back over my career and the amount of egregiously priced gear I have bought make me think that putting that same money into real estate or my 401k would have been a MUCH smarter long term investment.
It's funny, overall, I don't think too many cameras themselves are too overpriced. I don't know if you've ever seen that Arri factory tour video that shows them actually manufacturing a camera but after seeing that, it made me feel that $40-$50k for an Arri body is actually a good
value, I had no idea of the complexity of their hand manufacturing and how much of that particular camera IS hand assembled. I watched the video and was left thinking, "Oh, what's why they charge that much." Same even with my C200 or XT-3, they are such amazingly engineered,
relatively reliable, incredibly complex machines that their cost doesn't seem that excessive to me.

Then with optics, you kind of have the opposite factor, the assemblies themselves are incredibly simple in comparison but the execution of the design, sourcing the glass and coming up with the
optical formula is what you are paying for there. Although once you get to super expensive, pricey Cookes and huge Angenieux zooms, they must have a HUGE markup, the ones that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars? To a point, a lens is a lens is a lens. Not like cameras where
each new model is radically different and actually contains new original technology.

It's the accessory stuff like a fluorescent light or a SteadyGUM that bugs me more. No crazy German hand assembly with ultra comnplex sub assemblies in those items, they are priced like that simply because the manufacturer is only going to sell a few of them
in comparison to say, an iPhone. I don't begrudge them a healthy profit, but some of this stuff, they must be on a 1500 or 2000% profit or more and that hurts.

 

[Run&Gun]

Yep, a $200.00 Alexa would be pretty cool ;-) I just look back over my career and the amount of egregiously priced gear I have bought make me think that putting that same money into real estate or my 401k would have been a MUCH smarter long term investment.
It's funny, overall, I don't think too many cameras themselves are too overpriced. I don't know if you've ever seen that Arri factory tour video that shows them actually manufacturing a camera but after seeing that, it made me feel that $40-$50k for an Arri body is actually a good
value, I had no idea of the complexity of their hand manufacturing and how much of that particular camera IS hand assembled. I watched the video and was left thinking, "Oh, what's why they charge that much." Same even with my C200 or XT-3, they are such amazingly engineered,
relatively reliable, incredibly complex machines that their cost doesn't seem that excessive to me.

Then with optics, you kind of have the opposite factor, the assemblies themselves are incredibly simple in comparison but the execution of the design, sourcing the glass and coming up with the
optical formula is what you are paying for there. Although once you get to super expensive, pricey Cookes and huge Angenieux zooms, they must have a HUGE markup, the ones that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars? To a point, a lens is a lens is a lens. Not like cameras where
each new model is radically different and actually contains new original technology.

It's the accessory stuff like a fluorescent light or a SteadyGUM that bugs me more. No crazy German hand assembly with ultra comnplex sub assemblies in those items, they are priced like that simply because the manufacturer is only going to sell a few of them
in comparison to say, an iPhone. I don't begrudge them a healthy profit, but some of this stuff, they must be on a 1500 or 2000% profit or more and that hurts.

That was part of my point of saying that, even if some of our stuff was sold in larger quantities, a lot of it is still largely hand built to precise tolerances with heavy duty and expensive materials. It can only get so "cheap".

It all starts with the glass and I've watched video's of some of the high-end glass being hand assembled, final polishing by hand and calibrated with focus barrels having the witness marks/distances individually placed according to how each individual is. Even affordable lenses like the Sigma's are hand assembled. And the housings and mechanics seem extremely well built and precise. The mechanical engineering impresses me at least as much as the electronics.

Everyone places "value" differently on different things, but I do find it a little funny how so many people in this business place so little on lenses. That's were it all starts. Thats what's forming the image on the sensor.

I have a friend who still thinks "HD Lenses" were a scam.

 

[DLD]

The high end pro models still have huge markups because of a barely existent competition and a relatively low cost visavis other expenditures. ARRI can probably charge another fifty grand for the LF models because that's what the top directors and cinematographers want. And those probably spend more on catering than on their gear.

As to the lens built, it's made to appear more complicated than it is. Yes, it's hand assembled. Yes, there are a number of steps that need to be taken before the final packaging but it's not a complicated task to a professionally trained employee. Let's say, s/he is making $50/hr and can assemble a unit in 15 minutes. Well, that's the final assembly contribution to the cost - $12.50. Add the cost of the glass itself, the electric motor for the AF and you end up in the $50-$400 cost of manufacturing. There's a reason why a highly regarded Rokinon 85mm F1.4 E-mount manual sells for $300 and its 85mm 1.4 AF for $700. They may not be the $5,000 Zeiss Otus but the difference in quality at the end is minute and unnoticeable by an average viewer.

Side note - the audiophile tier amplifiers are also hand made with point-to-point wiring. Off the various sites, the estimate is that the manufacturing costs are about 10% of the retail price. Pass Labs twin mono blocks retail at $27,000. I doubt they cost more than $3,000 of parts and labor. There are quite a few vendors offering to mod the existing equipment. Their labor components run a few hundred bucks per mod.

 

[nutmegger]

That was part of my point of saying that, even if some of our stuff was sold in larger quantities, a lot of it is still largely hand built to precise tolerances with heavy duty and expensive materials. It can only get so "cheap".

It all starts with the glass and I've watched video's of some of the high-end glass being hand assembled, final polishing by hand and calibrated with focus barrels having the witness marks/distances individually placed according to how each individual is. Even affordable lenses like the Sigma's are hand assembled. And the housings and mechanics seem extremely well built and precise. The mechanical engineering impresses me at least as much as the electronics.

Everyone places "value" differently on different things, but I do find it a little funny how so many people in this business place so little on lenses. That's were it all starts. Thats what's forming the image on the sensor.

I have a friend who still thinks "HD Lenses" were a scam.

Here is an older video showing how Canon's 500mm f4 L lens is made. The process is labor intensive and quite complicated. Unfortunately this video is low res. Best if watched on a small screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovxtgj4SsiI

Enjoy.

 

[Run&Gun]

The high end pro models still have huge markups because of a barely existent competition and a relatively low cost visavis other expenditures. ARRI can probably charge another fifty grand for the LF models because that's what the top directors and cinematographers want. And those probably spend more on catering than on their gear.

As to the lens built, it's made to appear more complicated than it is. Yes, it's hand assembled. Yes, there are a number of steps that need to be taken before the final packaging but it's not a complicated task to a professionally trained employee. Let's say, s/he is making $50/hr and can assemble a unit in 15 minutes. Well, that's the final assembly contribution to the cost - $12.50. Add the cost of the glass itself, the electric motor for the AF and you end up in the $50-$400 cost of manufacturing. There's a reason why a highly regarded Rokinon 85mm F1.4 E-mount manual sells for $300 and its 85mm 1.4 AF for $700. They may not be the $5,000 Zeiss Otus but the difference in quality at the end is minute and unnoticeable by an average viewer.

Side note - the audiophile tier amplifiers are also hand made with point-to-point wiring. Off the various sites, the estimate is that the manufacturing costs are about 10% of the retail price. Pass Labs twin mono blocks retail at $27,000. I doubt they cost more than $3,000 of parts and labor. There are quite a few vendors offering to mod the existing equipment. Their labor components run a few hundred bucks per mod.

Yes, on big-budget movies, the cost of rentals on the cameras is almost inconsequential compared to so many other things. Yet, without the camera, what is anyone doing there? Kinda funny, isn’t it? At the lower tiers, everyone is worried about the cost of the cameras, even though that’s what it’s all about. Capturing “whatever” with the camera. And at the top-end, no one gives a rats a$$ about the cost of the camera and will get the absolute best, because they realize again, that it’s all for the camera. Why risk saving a few thousand dollars when you have A list actors getting paid MILLIONS of dollars to perform in front of said camera? One of the sports I used to cover a lot, the catering budget for us on a typical three day show, I was told was around $50K.

I was referring to “Cine” lenses, like Cooke’s, Zeiss MP’s, Angie’s and the like.

Yes, we can all agree that there are a lot of things that are marked up significantly with very little, if any, real relation to the cost of materials and/or labor. Following your audiophile theme, some of the cables that I’ve seen in magazines are great examples. Do I really need a $20K set of 1 meter cables to run from my amp to my speakers?

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Yet, without the camera, what is anyone doing there? Kinda funny, isn’t it?

On The Lion King they had camera operators, Steadicam operator, etc., but no camera.

https://ascmag.com/articles/making-the-lion-king