C500 MKII Leaked on Canon Rumors

[Eric Coughlin]

Maybe 25-30% is that agency - they do consumer branding, facebook, POS (point of sale) -not really films or broadcast; it is usual for them to require odd formats - this is the worst so far.

Their editor is also a fan of digital zooms and always wants '4k' for HD delivery.

Im just rebuffing Pure Driftings claim that 'no one cares' about resolution

I meant what percentage of your overall work in say the past year? Like what, one job out of 100, so 1%? And if it actually is a very low percentage, then renting a higher resolution camera for those rare high resolution jobs would make more sense than buying. In other words, I'm backing up Puredrifting's claim that "no one cares," of course with "no one" meaning not literally, but meaning not enough to actually have a need to buy a higher resolution camera.

Then with the money you save from not buying into high resolution, you can buy say a 17-120 and show that editor what a real zoom looks like.

It's a pet peeve of mine when a client thinks cropping in 200% on a 4K camera looks good; just do it right and use two cameras if you want a second tighter angle. I'm biased, though, because I own multiple cameras and make more money when clients rent more of them. Still, it is better quality that way. Even if the sharpness looks good at 200% (which it doesn't on a lot of cameras, like the C300 Mark II or Amira), it's less of a jump cut if you have a different focal length and angle from a second camera.

 

[morgan_moore]

Its low for me but what about pure studio photographers based in bigger cities than mine.

I wonder if a 'real' zoom would be better - considering the tight timing of 15-30s adverts, the zoom has to be perfectly timed, maybe to music, maybe music that the end client rejects and is replaced.

Im not saying I need a 6-8k camera, Im suggesting there is a need for such a thing in the commercial marketplace. Such a thing is not only for pixel peepers or super high end.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Right, there is a need out there, but the needs are rare, hence why most of us don't need it in a camera we own. Most big commercial jobs are still Arri as far as I'm aware, though it's harder to keep track of since they don't list tech specs like IMDB does for movies.

Well an optical zoom typically looks better, even if a digital zoom may be easier and more practical in some cases.

 

[morgan_moore]

Maths C200 vs C500?

C500, buy today $16000, sell in 5 years, $8000 - cost $8000

C200, buy today, $5000, sell in 2 years, $2500, buy used C500 $10000, sell £5000. Cost $7500 and suffer 2 years of limited spec.

That would seem to be a nobrainer for the C500 if it is still current in 5 years.

How long has my fs7 lasted? Five years.

 

[IanTheM]

$15,999 and then another $1600 if you want timecode in / out. Another $6k if you want the professional quality loupe. After all is said and done around $24k total. I suspect that Sony will smartly come in well under that with the Fx9 and the eyepiece / loupe will come standard as it does with the Fs7.

I haven't seen anyone use an EVF in years. Honestly, everyone I see working on big shows just prefers the convenience of a super high brightness 5-7 inch monitor like a 703 to having an EVF, and you'll still come out saving money compared to one of the proprietary pro EVFs from Canon, Sony, Panasonic, ect.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I haven't seen anyone use an EVF in years. Honestly, everyone I see working on big shows just prefers the convenience of a super high brightness 5-7 inch monitor like a 703 to having an EVF, and you'll still come out saving money compared to one of the proprietary pro EVFs from Canon, Sony, Panasonic, ect.

How do they do shoulder mount using a 7" monitor?

I've opted for using the C300 Mark II C200 monitor over an EVF for shoulder mount work, just placing it at the front of the camera (with the stupid expensive extra long cable) so it's a few inches in front of my eyes. EVFs provide better eye relief, though, since you're focusing further out rather than a few inches from your face. So, an EVF would work better, but since I don't do a lot of all day reality TV style shoulder mount, it hasn't been worth it to me to get a Zacuto Gratical. For the C500 Mark II I'd almost possibly prefer the Gratical just because they so stupidly limited you to choosing between the LCD or the EVF, and I can't think of a situation where I'd ever want an EVF without a monitor too.

 

[morgan_moore]

I shoulder my DP 502 with. But that is poverty.. I go for an EVF as an option if they were not $2k

 

[Guest]

BH gets so much free advertising on dvx. Are we getting a percentage yet?

 

[DLD]

On a somewhat related note, a Japanese site (Nikkan) reports that a "high end/pro" Canon camera won't be out until 2021. No detail on whether it's supposed to be their answer to A7 RIV or DX III with an RF mount.

One would think that DX III will be working hard during the 2020 Summer Olympics.

And FX-9 was listed for sale at a Spanish and a Slovakian online retailers. Supposedly 10,000 Euros but w/out any images or features yet officially released.

 

[Samuel H]

Maths C200 vs C500?

C500, buy today $16000, sell in 5 years, $8000 - cost $8000

C200, buy today, $5000, sell in 2 years, $2500, buy used C500 $10000, sell £5000. Cost $7500 and suffer 2 years of limited spec.

That would seem to be a nobrainer for the C500 if it is still current in 5 years.

How long has my fs7 lasted? Five years.

I know where you're going but the sell price has to be the same in both cases. Make it $8000 for the C200 guy, and the cost now is $4500. That's *expected* savings of $3500 for suffering the limited spec for two years (it all depends on how fast the C200 and C500II lose value).

Personally, if I had the use for a more expensive camera (for what I do right now my p4k is enough), I'd be looking at a second hand FS7 or UMP right now, with my eye on a second-hand FX9 or C500II two years from now.

 

[tillhavis]

I hope any new Sony FX9 has a new form factor.
Personally I would love an even smaller FF version of
the C500 II or C200.
IMO a S1H in a Canon XC15 body with internal Raw (Blackmagic) built in ND’s, SDI, HDMI, with side handle and their new 5” LCD design, etc...would be the perfect sub 10k
cinema camera. Will we see it? Maybe not but boy I think it
could be a big hit. JMHO

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?362432-The-Perfect-Filmmakers-Camera

 

[NorBro]

I know where you're going but the sell price has to be the same in both cases. Make it $8000 for the C200 guy, and the cost now is $4500. That's *expected* savings of $3500 for suffering the limited spec for two years (it all depends on how fast the C200 and C500II lose value).

He is probably talking about the C200B mentioned above, which is MSRP $4,999.

 

[Jim Feeley]

On a somewhat related note, a Japanese site (Nikkan) reports that a "high end/pro" Canon camera won't be out until 2021. No detail on whether it's supposed to be their answer to A7 RIV or DX III with an RF mount.

One would think that DX III will be working hard during the 2020 Summer Olympics.

My hazy reading of the rumor chat is that the RF still-camera roadmap is something like this:

Summer 2020
Canon will release a 5D-level still camera (i.e. a US$2500-$3500 body) with an RF mount.
And Canon will probably have some 1D-level bodies & lenses at the Tokyo Olympics, but I wonder how many & how the photogs who can choose will use them.

Sometime in 2021
Canon will release a 1D-level still camera (i.e. a $5000 body).

Would be GREAT to get clarity at IBC from Canon, or at least hallway chat from lens manufacturers, about how RF fits into their Cinema EOS line.

 

[puredrifting]

Maybe 25-30% is that agency - they do consumer branding, facebook, POS (point of sale) -not really films or broadcast; it is not usual for them to require odd formats - this is the worst so far.

Their editor is also a fan of digital zooms and always wants '4k' for HD delivery.

Im just rebuffing Pure Driftings claim that 'no one cares' about resolution

Ok, almost nobody but Morgan's ad agency! ;-)
I've done a few 9:16 projects, what a PITA, it's fine but just not a very engaging way of producing content for most, but if it pays the bills...

 

[DLD]

My hazy reading of the rumor chat is that the RF still-camera roadmap is something like this:

Summer 2020
Canon will release a 5D-level still camera (i.e. a US$2500-$3500 body) with an RF mount.
And Canon will probably have some 1D-level bodies & lenses at the Tokyo Olympics, but I wonder how many & how the photogs who can choose will use them.

Sometime in 2021
Canon will release a 1D-level still camera (i.e. a $5000 body).

Would be GREAT to get clarity at IBC from Canon, or at least hallway chat from lens manufacturers, about how RF fits into their Cinema EOS line.

EOS R has the same sensor as 5D MKIV and is only a year old. In Canon years, it's a baby.

On the other hand, 5D MK IV itself is three years old and nearing the end of a typical four year cycle.

I'd speculate that a rumored high spec replacement has been long in the works but it''ll be solely as an RF mount. 70 MPX is rumored. Video will probably be crippled. Arrival 2020.

From what I read on the Olympics, every photog will be given 1DX MKII free of charge for the coverage. No other cameras will be allowed on the premises. (of course, it's pretty difficult to find other cameras at these events anyway). Scanning photo driven sites off that Nikkan article, the anticipation is for some sort of a hybrid/swappable mirrorless/DSLR RF/EF mount for 1D X MKIII for 2021. Once again, it appears to be a photocentric model.

Of course, no one knows what happens if the sales will keep on tanking. Some models will surely be culled from the lineup.

 

[Run&Gun]

From what I read on the Olympics, every photog will be given 1DX MKII free of charge for the coverage. No other cameras will be allowed on the premises. (of course, it's pretty difficult to find other cameras at these events anyway).

I'll have to see that in writing from a proven, authoritative source(like the IOC) before I'd even semi-think about this maybe even being ever-so slightly plausible. But I would still probably doubt it, until I saw it.

Of course, if this is more sarcasm, carry-on and Lol.

 

[Jim Feeley]

From what I read on the Olympics, every photog will be given 1DX MKII free of charge for the coverage. No other cameras will be allowed on the premises. (of course, it's pretty difficult to find other cameras at these events anyway).

I think that would be a change. At the last few Olympics, both Canon and Nikon brought a bunch of spare/extra/loaner bodies and lenses for press photogs using their equipment. In Rio, Canon had something like 1,000 bodies and more lenses. The deal is photogs don't want to travel with a bunch of 400mm lenses, big bodies, etc. And they want multiple cameras... This is based on chats with a couple still photog friends who've covered the Olympics. Here; I'll GTS:

From the 2018 South Korea Winter Olympics (a much smaller event than summer games):
Here Are Canon’s and Nikon’s Crazy DSLR Stockpiles at the 2018 Olympics
https://petapixel.com/2018/02/12/canons-nikons-crazy-dslr-stockpiles-2018-olympics/

From 2016 Rio:
https://petapixel.com/2016/08/03/canons-crazy-dslr-stockpile-rio-olympics/

https://petapixel.com/2016/08/12/peek-inside-nikons-gear-room-rio-olympics/

However, Canon spent a lot of money to become a "gold sponsor" of the Tokyo Olympics (I follow Olympic stuff as part of my work):

Canon announced as latest Tokyo 2020 gold sponsor
"The Organising Committee of the Games are reportedly charging JPY¥15 billion (£80 million/$128 million/€110 million) to become a gold sponsor"
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1025666/canon-announced-as-latest-gold-sponsor-of-tokyo-2020

So maybe Canon was able to squeeze out a few more restrictions. But like R&G, I'd love to see confirmation of that...and that could be something I missed.

 

[morgan_moore]

He is probably talking about the C200B mentioned above, which is MSRP $4,999.

Im not particulary mentioning any specific deals, Im just having a think through. Having the latest and greatest with a loan can work better than scraping along with last years model can be better business.
You are someone with the latest and greatest.
You actually have more usable features
The losses can be less if you know when to move.
Buying the FS7 00028 was probably a good move for me.
My F3 was a bad move in every way as the value plumetted, even though I bought that used.

 

[DLD]

I'll have to see that in writing from a proven, authoritative source(like the IOC) before I'd even semi-think about this maybe even being ever-so slightly plausible. But I would still probably doubt it, until I saw it.

Of course, if this is more sarcasm, carry-on and Lol.

Not sarcasm. As Jim wrote below, Canon is a huge sponsor of the Olympics and thus, from what I read, was able to garner itself the exclusive on the camera usage.

Think of it this way - if Coca Cola paid for the sponsorship of any major sporting event in the US, would you see Pepsi products there? If it's Bud, would there be Miller too? If there's Pizza Hut, would there also be Papa John?

... So maybe Canon was able to squeeze out a few more restrictions. But like R&G, I'd love to see confirmation of that...and that could be something I missed.

I didn't pay much attention to this but, as I had mentioned above, it makes sense to me. If Canon pays big money to sponsor the Olympics - home country and all that - they want the exclusive on premises. (I assume the audience will be allowed to bring in their smartphones).

As a side note, I recall Andree posting about 1D XII's video features upon release with the conversation drifting to the point that a photog with this camera would be authorized for the photo use only. IOW, you can shoot stills but you can't record video, though the camera obviously has both features. Because the video rights belong to some TV network as big money entertainment, while the stills are technically "news".

PS. The video broadcast will have its own system, obviously.

 

[NorBro]

Well, it's one or the other...if comparing brand new prices, it has to be $4999 or $6499. (If you're looking for a used C200/B, okay.)

Nevertheless...I used to purchase cameras with Bill-Me-Later (now PayPal Credit) and had 6 months to pay them off (0% interest within 6 months).

I'd use the cameras for 5 months and then start looking to move. Sometimes I ended up paying only 15% of the MSRP for a 5 month rental (after I sold it). It was a business plan that particularly worked for me but you cannot go one day past 6 months or you get hit hard with interest on the ENTIRE purchase; not what is unpaid (if anything). Also have to protect the camera (as I always did and do).

I stopped doing that once I noticed people's spending habits drastically changing overnight in the last 2 years. It started to become very difficult to sell cameras because of systems like the GH5 and Pocket 4K.

If you (anyone) buys this C500 Mark III, you have one year to move it. If you wait any longer you're guaranteed to lose thousands - theoretically resale value - on price drops (even temporary savings) or drastic industry changes.

Volatile future.