C500 MKII Leaked on Canon Rumors

It's really best to just have a few of each (Mini LF and full-size LF) to suit different needs and multi-camera situations, as well as the Super35 versions and a few black market Alexa 65s.


I wonder if a production rented an Alexa 65, lied about it getting lost or destroyed, paid out of pocket (not insurance fraud) to replace the camera, and then kept it, would they be breaking any laws?
 
NorBro said:
Why don't you have an ALEXA Mini?
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Because most of my well paid work is corporate, doc, interviews, events, etc., and the Amira is better suited for that. Most of the narrative work I do is unpaid, often funded by myself, or low paid. I want to push toward higher end commercial and narrative work where the Mini is slightly better suited, but I'm not in that market enough at the moment to feel a strong need for a Mini and the Amira does serve that market quite well as well. As I'd said before, I could see myself adding a Mini in perhaps a year or two, probably selling one of my three Amiras, particularly if I can build up more commercial portfolio and start getting those clients.

Also, one of the selling points of the Mini for many owner/operators is that it's compatible with gimbals, but since I'm a competent Steadicam owner/operator and my rig supports the Amira, the Mini doesn't really give me much benefit in that regard as I find Steadicam to be a better choice than a gimbal in most cases. The smaller size of the Mini would be nice for small locations such as inside a car. But the Amira does have the advantage of being a single piece camera with awesome shoulder mount ergonomics with little to no futzing about with rigging which the Mini needs more of.

I don't own any anamorphic lenses (which the Mini can do and the Amira can't), so no benefits there unless I was on bigger shoots where they'd be renting anamorophics (and thus losing money by them not renting my cinema lenses) or I later buy anamorphics. The Amira can do 2.8K RAW with a license (which I don't have) and the Mini can do 3.4K RAW with a license, so .6K more resolution in RAW, but seeing as how I haven't even bothered spending $4k for the Amira RAW license, I just don't get enough clients wanting RAW for that to be a real benefit if I had a Mini. Again, if I had a higher end clientele that wanted RAW more often at the higher resolution, then it'd be more worth it.

In an ideal world, I'd have both for versatility sake. The Mini isn't that much more money than an Amira (about $10k more); I got my first Amira new at full price but I got my latter two Amiras used at about half the price of buying new (about $19k each for body only, heavily used), and the Minis aren't available used at as much of a discount currently. So, spending an extra $20k-$30K on a Mini just isn't worth it to me at this time.


After getting the Devin Graham Glidecam and C200 monitor, I was able to use the C300 Mark II handheld on the Glidecam with ease, which has been great, as it's way easier to setup and deal with than a gimbal or my full-size Steadicam; awesome for run n gun. Certainly can't use an Amira on the Glidecam handheld, but I've imagined a stripped down Mini with the Anton Bauer battery on the sled, and I could likely make the Glidecam setup work. Not that the Mini is really aimed at one-man-band run n gun, but when I book an occasional company project (as opposed to freelance DP), I often like to keep the crew small (so I can keep most of the profits) while using the best equipment I have available. In the past that's meant Amira for tripod, handheld, and dolly, but the C300 Mark II for Glidecam as I don't want to setup the Steadicam as a one-man-band. But with the Mini, that could be possible and then keep the whole shoot Arri. Only downside is, no autofocus.
 
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Jaime Valles said:
Wasn't the new Lion King entirely CGI animation?
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Apparently not. I haven't read on how they did it, but I'd always assumed it was like Jungle Book, filming real locations and integrating CGI animals.

I just watched Ave Venture: When Nature Calls recently, which was filmed mostly with real animals (as well as some animatronic), and thought, "If this was filmed today, it'd be mostly CGI."

Let's refresh our memory one what real talking animals look like.


Directed by George Miller, Fury Road, still staying using lots of practical effects.
 
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The Alexa 65 was used on the location/reference scout. Sort of like a supersmartphone. From American Cinematographer:

To Be King: Making The Lion King

"Legato: Producer Jeff Silver really wanted to go to Kenya when I first joined. Every single shot and pixel [in the movie] is manufactured, so having a reference for what it really looks like helps answer a lot of questions when you go to re-create it."

"According to Grossman, the virtual camera was modeled after the large-format Arri Alexa 65 camera system that Deschanel and his colleagues took to Kenya to record reference elements. Pixel ratio and sensor size for their virtual camera “was cropped-in slightly from the full [Alexa 65] sensor to standardize the video-delivery spec between reference, capture, editorial, delivery from VFX, and eventually projection,” Grossmann adds."
https://ascmag.com/articles/making-the-lion-king
 
chris f said:
My hunch is that it trickles down from the top where commercial DPs and feature DPs don't own cameras so camera packages are always line items in the budget. I think as you start to come down a level or two certain types of DPs see how much money is going towards camera rentals on every shoot and start realizing that the same camera(s) are getting rented and then decide to buy the camera themselves in hopes of paying it off and then having a great camera that they can use on their own passion projects and/or something that can eventually make them even more profit on top of their day rate (which will always be trading time for money).

For me the turning point from doing a package deal (me + camera package) to charging separately for labor and gear was several years back when I used to always offer myself as a package deal at a rate that I wanted to make for the day. The producer (wanting to save money) realized he owned the same camera as me and then asked how much my rate would be if we used his camera instead since he wouldn't need mine. I paused for a moment, and then said the same dollar amount which made no sense to him (or me even though I'm the one who said it...). After a lot of awkward backpeddling and back and forth i realized in that moment that I needed to make my labor day rate the amount that I want to make for a day and then add my camera package on as a separate expense on top of that. It was scary to do, but moving forward I made my new labor day rate what my old labor+camera rate was and then made an additional camera rate.

For what it's worth I price my camera rate lower than what it would cost to rent from a rental house for a few reasons, one of them being that going with my camera package (which i'm more comfortable with and will almost certainly do a better job with) will "save" the producer money compared to renting whatever other package they may be considering and it will make my job easier, which is what I want to incentivize. Also, by doing this I'm able to bump up my labor rate which insures that I still get paid well if they want to use another camera. I'm not sure what industry standard is, but within my package deal (me+camera) rate I'd say my labor rate makes up about 80% of the total rate.
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For me, it's closer to 60/40. Some shoots, when I can bill two cameras, grip and lighting, slider and or gimbal and an audio package, I do pretty well, especially for multi-day shoots.
 
Jim Feeley said:
The Alexa 65 was used on the location/reference scout. Sort of like a supersmartphone. From American Cinematographer:

To Be King: Making The Lion King

"Legato: Producer Jeff Silver really wanted to go to Kenya when I first joined. Every single shot and pixel [in the movie] is manufactured, so having a reference for what it really looks like helps answer a lot of questions when you go to re-create it."

"According to Grossman, the virtual camera was modeled after the large-format Arri Alexa 65 camera system that Deschanel and his colleagues took to Kenya to record reference elements. Pixel ratio and sensor size for their virtual camera “was cropped-in slightly from the full [Alexa 65] sensor to standardize the video-delivery spec between reference, capture, editorial, delivery from VFX, and eventually projection,” Grossmann adds."
https://ascmag.com/articles/making-the-lion-king
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Aww man, and I thought I was cool when I've used my C300 Mark II as a dummy reference camera on Arri shoots. :(
 
NorBro said:
The irony is the best DPs in the world probably don't own a camera and rent one, or are provided one by a studio...
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True but it's not an irony. At the highest level, they audition any cameras they want and then they buy/rent whatever they feel like.*

*This probably excludes those aligned to a given brand like Fincher and Cronenweth to Red or Deakins to ARRI.

combatentropy said:
Don't you think it's eerie that no one ever talks about the audience, you know, the people who actually watch what you made?
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No. Why? I would say that no one in the audience either cares or understands the technical aspects of film making, aside of it being in black&white or color.

PS. When I was selling electronics, most customers had no idea what they were shopping for. The internet era changed that, so it's much easier to get educated on the consumer products, but to go above that is extremely rare. Let's look at cars. How many people understand twin-charging or the electronic limited slip differential? Very few. And why should they? It's like knowing how sausages are made.
 
JPNola said:
Eric is an expert on what he's been told about by others.
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I don't see an issue with sharing the opinions of other professionals in the industry and it's not like I'm an inexperienced hack who has never operated a camera and just shares the opinions of others. I've used the Arri Alexa XT and I personally do not like the size and weight of it as well for my own shoots, and the Alexa LF is larger and heavier, particularly with sometimes larger lenses as I'd mentioned. Also as mentioned, just look at the popularity of the Alexa Mini to backup the idea that the larger Arris are often not preferred.

I'll give you another one; I was hanging out a few days ago with a high end Steadicam op who has flown the Alexa 65 and also wasn't a fan of the weight. He recently bought a Sony Venice and spoke about how he was happy it is considerably lighter than the Alexa 65.

Perhaps you could share you own opinions on the cameras being discussed instead of criticizing me for citing the opinions of others who are actually working on high end sets with the cameras being discussed.
 
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Run&Gun said:
I think there's some misunderstanding going on. I don't think anyone is "not charging" for gear. It's just a package price. There's not a separate line item for labor and gear(unless it's extra items and OT). It's more or less semantics. There's really no difference between sending in an invoice for $1900 for operator and cam package together and sending in an invoice with a separate line for $700 labor and another for $1200 for the gear.

With most of my client's, it's a package price. This is especially how TV clients operate and expect to be invoiced. I only have one that has to have labor and equipment on separate invoices and that's because they're paid by separate divisions.
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There is a difference if there’s overtime. And even if not you may wish to ask your accountant if there’s a difference or not. I certainly hope people are smart enough to form an LLC or sub chapter S and charge out clients via that entity. Ask a lawyer and an accountant why.
 
mattmealer said:
I worked a couple of days for Vice News earlier this year and was directed to log labor and gear expenses separately in their payroll system, for what that's worth.
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Because they don’t want to pay unemployment benefits, health insurance, social security and any other fringes on your gear rental. Those fringes are meant to be a percentage against salary.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
It's really best to just have a few of each (Mini LF and full-size LF) to suit different needs and multi-camera situations, as well as the Super35 versions and a few black market Alexa 65s.


I wonder if a production rented an Alexa 65, lied about it getting lost or destroyed, paid out of pocket (not insurance fraud) to replace the camera, and then kept it, would they be breaking any laws?
Click to expand...

I’m not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV, but that sure sounds like a form of theft. The product is not available for sale so the actions sound fraudulent by definition.
 
Jim Feeley said:
The Alexa 65 was used on the location/reference scout. Sort of like a supersmartphone. From American Cinematographer:

To Be King: Making The Lion King

"Legato: Producer Jeff Silver really wanted to go to Kenya when I first joined. Every single shot and pixel [in the movie] is manufactured, so having a reference for what it really looks like helps answer a lot of questions when you go to re-create it."

"According to Grossman, the virtual camera was modeled after the large-format Arri Alexa 65 camera system that Deschanel and his colleagues took to Kenya to record reference elements. Pixel ratio and sensor size for their virtual camera “was cropped-in slightly from the full [Alexa 65] sensor to standardize the video-delivery spec between reference, capture, editorial, delivery from VFX, and eventually projection,” Grossmann adds."
https://ascmag.com/articles/making-the-lion-king
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Technically the very first shot in the movie is real, a choice by the director “because I want to prove they can’t tell the difference.” After that it’s all pixels.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I’m not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV, but that sure sounds like a form of theft. The product is not available for sale so the actions sound fraudulent by definition.
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Okay, fair enough. But hear me out. What if the camera actually was stolen, but not by me. See, I film a short film in the hood, but PAs are expensive and as a one-man-band Alexa 65 shooter, I need to go to the bathroom. We're talking diarrhea, so it's going to take awhile. Unfortunately I was also acting in this movie, so it's truly a one-man-band show. Meanwhile, I've left the Alexa 65 out in the alley way in the hood, and once I emerge from the bathroom a long while later, I mean, if someone who I have nothing to do with stole it, how have I committed a crime?

Okay, so I pay Arri $200k or whatever agreement was made to them in order to rent the camera. Most rental companies require insurance, but many also accept a deposit to cover the full cost of what is being rented. Now, Arri and the police may dedicate some resources to finding the camera, but me, I've got more at stake. So, I hire two thousand private detectives at a cost of one million dollars, and with some good fortune, likely recover the stolen camera. But, I tell the private detectives to not inform me if the camera is recovered. Instead, I say that whoever finds the camera could be best off to just sell it, but this is more of citing an idea than me telling them to do it. So meanwhile I just happen to be looking for Alexa 65 cameras on Ebay and Craigslist, and low and behold, I find one. Wow, what a coincidence, officer. Okay, so I put in a $200,000 offer, win it, and now have an Alexa 65. The serial number is scratched off, so, I really have no way of knowing if it's the same one I rented, but it's not really my problem at this point as I'm not aware of there being a law against buying stolen goods on Ebay if you have no way to know for sure that it was stolen.

So, I'm home free, yeah? Great plan?
 
Is this sarcasm? There are so many jokes and sarcasm on this forum that I can’t tell anymore...It’s like a damn message board in here.

Let’s be real here, what are the odds that you will even win that auction??? How plausible is your Hershey squirt story? Why wouldn’t you take the camera into the stall with you, and what’s the cost of vacuuming out poop flakes from the vents compared to having the camera stolen??

Also, 1 million for 2000 detectives? That’s $500 per PI. How are they breaking down costs? Are they rolling in their gear into this fee or are they giving you a breakdown with their fee plus large format camera detectors as a separate line item? What detector are they even using? The bigger and more expensive ones are heavy and for people in their 40’s. Are they even using the perfect detector 1.0 that weighs next to nothing and is practical for every single detective situation?

Get real people...
 
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