C500 MKII Leaked on Canon Rumors

[NorBro]

Fair enough...you're an old-timer (I'll be there soon) who has moved the "I own a Varicam package" ideology into the new age.

You own a certain camera and you're fortunate for other old-timers to pay you for it.

I'm sure even you have seen some rates drop and things change in the last half-decade or so.

___

At the end of the day, if many of us were guaranteed to make X amount of money for buying X camera, we'd do it.

The problem is there is no guarantee and the saturation is brutal.

 

[Run&Gun]

Then he ripped off his helmet and changed into clothes too!

And AR - most QBs besides maybe Cam Newton - wouldn't celebrate with props.

(lol, sorry...football is a major love of mine.)

Even as a New Yorker, I'll say Aaron Rodgers will never be Tom Brady. SB LI sealed TB as the greatest of all time.

As much as I hate the Patriots, you can't say Brady isn't the GOAT after that.

 

[Run&Gun]

Fair enough...you're an old-timer (I'll be there soon) who has moved the "I own a Varicam package" ideology into the new age.

You own a certain camera and you're fortunate for other old-timers to pay you for it.

I'm sure even you have seen some rates drop and things change in the last half-decade or so.

___

At the end of the day, if many of us were guaranteed to make X amount of money for buying X camera, we'd do it.

The problem is there is no guarantee and the saturation is brutal.

And that's basically how it used to be. But, there is no loyalty or guarantees like there used to be. I bought my first (tape) VariCam($45K+) based on the promise from a handshake deal from the Senior CP of a show guaranteeing me the work. He even asked if I wanted something in writing and I declined. I said I trusted him and had ~8 years of history behind my decision. That was 13 years ago. Today? No F'n way. If someone approached me now asking me to buy a specific camera for work with them, they better give me a contract. Now if I see the opportunity that buying a certain camera is going to get me more all-around(like with my F55 did), I'll take the plunge.

 

[DLD]

I've gotten Aaron Rodgers perhaps eight times before...

That's because you don't live in Wisconsin.

I used to live in Wisconsin (many years ago). I also used to live in LA. And people would always tell me that I looked like a certain movie star. Unfortunately, that movie star was Chris Elliott. (or was it Missy Elliott? ...do they look anything alike?) I was perturbed enough to start lifting weights almost as heavy as Alexa with a Fujinon Cabrio 20-300 and an Anton Bauer brick just to avoid similar comparisons in the future.

PS. The first season of "Get a Life" was one of my all time favorite shows. Even if it wasn't shot on Amira. or Alexa. Or C500 MKII.

 

[Newsguy]

I’m a Dolphins fan, so any pictures of Brady are going to push me right out of this thread.

 

[Jaime Valles]

These are the latest C500 II specs according to CanonRumors:

Full-frame sensor
Records up to 5.9k at 60p RAW full frame
Records 4K60p in Super35 crop internally in Cinema RAW light
Records 2k120p in Super16 crop in Cinema RAW light
Can record in XF-AVC in 4k and 2k oversampled from the 5.9k sensor with 4:2:2 10- bit sampling
CFExpress is needed because of the bitrate, the 5.9K RAW is 2.5Gbps, 4k is the same bitrate as the Cinema EOS C200 at 1Gbps
User interchangeable lens mount
Optional modules with EVF, genlock, timecode, 12G-SDI, etc
EF and PL mount available at launch
Power supply with BP-A series batteries, an optional module for V-Mount batteries
Optional module for 4x XLR inputs
Backwards compatibility with EVF-V70, LV-M1 and some other peripherals from previous Cinema EOS cameras
New media usage: CFExpress cards for faster readings and writing speed
WiFi and IP Streaming capabilities

That actually sounds really, really good on paper. The final two questions are:
1) How much does it cost?
2) What's the image quality like?

I'm trying to figure out how to move up to higher end work in corporate video land. My C100s, while they're still workhorses, are starting to get long in the tooth because of 1080p. I'm just now getting clients asking for 4K, so I'm looking at all these new cameras with great interest.

We'll see what happens tomorrow.

 

[david dominguez]

I know plenty of Arri, Red, Varicam, and Venice owner/operators. Owning and renting out expensive cameras is typically way more profitable overall than owning and renting out cheap cameras. I personally don't know why people settle for the low end. I can understand why people start at the low end; everyone does, and I can understand why people could stay at the low end (poor market, over-saturation, lack of skill, poor marketing abilities, lack of motivation, preferring those types of shoots, etc.), but I don't understand why people don't at least try for the high end. I guess if one can make a satisfactory living at the low end and are happy with that, then good for them. Money isn't everything and low end shoots do have certain benefits such as being simpler, maintaining more control, etc.

Personally, while I do high end corporate and doc work, I'd still like to push myself into higher end commercial and narrative work. I could make more money renting out an Alexa LF with Leica Summilux lenses, Anegnuix DP lenses, and Cooke anomorphics, than the current kit I own. I know some other DPs who have higher end lenses than me, charge more than me, and make more than me. I'd rather be in their position, and it's a goal for me to push toward. Again, I don't know why anyone would want to forever work with cheap cameras as an owner/operator as it is less profitable.

Charging $750 per day as a DSLR owner/op compared to $5k per day as an Arri and Cooke owner/op; the profit difference is substantial. Yeah, you're obviously spending more on the equipment, but if you're doing it right then your end profits are still much higher with the more expensive equipment.

The cost of cameras going down would make it more difficult to profit off of the camera rentals, while other things like lens rentals and support gear would mostly remain the same. Though as I've said before, I still don't see high end cameras going down in price; the new kid on the block, the Venice, is about $70k fully licensed, and the new Alexa Mini LF is pretty close in price as well. These cameras will be the top dogs for the next few years and the releases after that I don't foresee as being significantly cheaper, as there will always be new cutting edge technology that the high end will be willing to pay a premium price for.

are you being serious?? I really can't tell if you are being serious or not. Do you honesty believe that most people can invest in hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and start making 5K a day on a regular basis? Most people in the world live paycheck to paycheck and couldn't qualify for a loan if that amount if they tried. your post comes off a bit arrogant if I'm being honest.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

are you being serious?? I really can't tell if you are being serious or not. Do you honesty believe that most people can invest in hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and start making 5K a day on a regular basis? Most people in the world live paycheck to paycheck and couldn't qualify for a loan if that amount if they tried. your post comes off a bit arrogant if I'm being honest.

I'm saying that people posting on forums with the mentality that $50k cameras are a waste of money that no owner/ops can afford are being close minded to the fact that owner/operators can and do make good profits off of $50K cameras, and perhaps they are limiting themselves with that mentality. I'm not saying anyone can work their way up to that, but I am suggesting that more people should try, or at least try to move up from their $2k camera to say a $5k camera so they can charge more and do better work. Run&Gun is with me on this in the sense that he also owns expensive cameras and charges appropriate rates so as to make more money than the typical DSLR shooter can. DVXuser tends to cater to lower priced cameras and owners as it doesn't have a Red or Arri forum, but if you were to go over to RedUser, the Arri forum, Cinematography.net, etc., and make posts about how no one can afford $50k cameras, you'd probably not get nearly the same response as on DVXuser.

I didn't do loans for any of my equipment and it's all paid off (aside from my company vehicle); I just slowly worked my way up the ladder (Canon XH-A1s -> Canon 60D -> Canon C100 -> Canon C300 Mark II -> Arri Amira), and as said, I want to keep moving upward.

And it's not just the video business. Many people work at jobs or a business and don't have ambitions to grow in their career as they settle into stagnance. I know for myself there are definitely times, heck, months, where I'm just lazy, and other times where I'm working hard and trying to grow. I was unemployed for over a year after graduating college because I was lazy and unmotivated, and the past month work has been slow and I've been lazy (hence more time for DVXuser), and I don't really see that as a good thing, but it's a choice we all make. I could be out there hitting the pavements trying to get better clients or replying to my inquiries faster or studying cinematography techniques or I can sit at home and binge watch the latest TV show that's out. I really doubt that the average 50 year old who has been a DP for 30 years and is still shooting on A7s II's at a day rate of $750 has been trying their absolute hardest to break into higher end work for the past 30 years; chances are they became stagnant in their career and perhaps are fine with that. I guess I'm just saying, ambition is typically a good thing that can help one's career (assuming a proper work/life balance is achieved), and seeing posts saying, "No one can afford $50k cameras" is a pessimistic view on career ambition that doesn't sit very well with me.

 

[NorBro]

It's a nice American dream, but one actually has to find people willing to pay.

As I shared my opinion, you're in the .01%.

Even if many people could afford $50K cameras it is terrible business advice to provide for such an unpredictable industry, IMO.

Secure the money then buy the camera if you must. Not the other way around.

 

[rob norton]

I could be out there hitting the pavements trying to get better clients or replying to my inquiries faster...

- Other than inquiries, how did you get clients in your c300 ii days?

- Today, what percentage of your work is from an inquiry vs. work you've created yourself (as in work you sought after)?

 

[Jaime Valles]

Well, certainly nobody is saying a person starting out as a videographer/DP should go out and buy an Alexa LF and a Cooke 7i prime set right off the bat. Like Eric said, he started with handycams and DSLRs, then went up to C100s, C300s and eventually Amiras. You get there by hustling and networking and increasing your client base.

Right now I have two C100s and a 1DX II. I love my C100 cameras and they've made me good money over several years, but I'm going to upgrade to 4K+ cameras this coming year (hopefully) because I'm starting to get clients asking for that level of video. The 1DX II has been getting a lot more use by me lately precisely because of that, but it's a DSLR first and foremost, with all the ergonomic inadequacies that brings to the video world. Hence, my interest in these newer cameras.

I'm specifically interested in the Canon cinema cameras because of their phenomenal Dual Pixel Auto Focus. The 1DX II has transformed the way I work, and my work has improved because my footage is now usually in tack-sharp focus, and I can concentrate on framing, exposure, and everything else without worrying if the interviewee is out of focus because he leaned forward a couple of inches. I don't know that I'll be able to jump right into a C500 II when it comes out, but a C200 or used C300 II might well be in my future pretty soon. After that, who knows? But I'm definitely trying to work my way up the ladder.

 

[NorBro]

These kind of discussions always makes me think of big Hollywood productions.

I would like to know how those people get there.

Not that I personally want to be there because I'm not crazy about having to work/be somewhere every day for months...but who gets to be a PA on Endgame? Or a make-up artist. Or a focus-puller. And how did he or she get there?

I guess that's what working your way up the ladder is (and who you know).

And I guess that's why dreaming of or trying to make films that will be successful (the short cut to the top of the ladder) is so mentally enticing.

 

[Run&Gun]

It's a nice American dream, but one actually has to find people willing to pay.

As I shared my opinion, you're in the .01%.

Even if many people could afford $50K cameras it is terrible business advice to provide for such an unpredictable industry, IMO.

Secure the money then buy the camera if you must. Not the other way around.

Again, it kind of depends on exactly what market segment you serve. If you're working strictly in production where things are generally planned and booked weeks or longer in advance, you can just rent and work up that way, but there are market segments, like network TV, where you are going to have to have pretty much immediate and continuous access to a camera, because, as silly as it may sound, even feature sit-down interviews pop-up and you get the call, "Hey, can you be to X in an hour and a half?".

But yes, I do agree with "working your way up". I got into the network side very, very quickly, but I didn't buy a $100K camera package right out the gate. Even though that was sort of SOP around the time/just before I got into the game. Guys were spending at least $100K on working packages. BUT, they came in with years of experience and connections. It's not like how it's been the last decade with guys being able to just spend a few thousand dollars and get a camera and some gear and then start looking for business.

 

[DLD]

... I would like to know how those people get there.

Not that I personally want to be there because I'm not crazy about having to work/be somewhere every day for months...but who gets to be a PA on Endgame? Or a make-up artist. Or a focus-puller. And how did he or she get there?

I guess that's what working your way up the ladder is (and who you know).

And I guess that's why dreaming of or trying to make films that will be successful (the short cut to the top of the ladder) is so mentally enticing.

There are, obviously, a zillion ways.

You went to USC and you dad has lunch with Steven Spielberg once a week? Well, unless you're a total screw up, you get, at least, a foot in the door.

You made a student film that was so brilliant that it got you a PA job on a movie set? That's also a foot in the door.

You were hustling drinks at a local bar when a famous movie star asked you to come up to his place and see him sometime? That's a foot in the door.

LA may be a company town but it's a big bleeping company. There are ways to get into that swinging door.

 

[NorBro]

lol...those are all American-dream scenarios. (And true too.)

How about the real world? I guess applying would be one way, if available.

And who shoots for Apple or Google or Amazon or Walmart? Would be nice to be on that team. Maybe it's in-house.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

- Other than inquiries, how did you get clients in your c300 ii days?

- Today, what percentage of your work is from an inquiry vs. work you've created yourself (as in work you sought after)?

Back in Florida say from 2015-2018, my work was split three ways - weddings (which I got through filming a friend's wedding for dirt cheap, met a photographer on that wedding who hired me to film other weddings, met more wedding clients through that, etc.), church media (which I got through originally doing free videos for religious organizations and churches until they started paying me for it), and corporate work (which I got through applying to job postings online such as Craigslist, as well as cold calling about 50 local video companies that I found through Google searches and the like).

After I got the Amira and moves to Atlanta these days I mostly advertise my services online in various locations and travel around in my RV as a traveling cameraman who works as a local in many locations which means my market is expansive and enables me to turn down lower paying jobs since I get so many inquiries. I still apply for job postings here and there, but most of my work comes as a result of inquiries. And most of my clients still opt for the C300 due to budget, but I'm always happy when they go for the Amira, and of course I use the Amira on my personal projects. Some day I'll try to tap into the Atlanta agency market to try to score some more local clients, but I haven't had much motivation to as the traveling jobs have kept me busy and I don't have a family I need to stay local for.

As I'd said, I also want to try to get into more commercial work but I need to start with doing spec ads as I don't have much commercial portfolio. I always say, self-producing unpaid work is a good path to growth as it gives you the ability to shine and create exactly what you want (as well as the type of work you'd like to get paid for) in a way that paid work typically does not. I've tried to partner with co-workers in the past to create some spec ads but it hasn't worked out; some day I'll hopefully get around to that as there are limits of how high corporate and doc work can go and I'm approaching those limits.

I've been self producing short films, but so far it hasn't really scored me much paid narrative work. I did DP a feature last year for decent pay, but that was a whole year ago now. I get tons of offers for narrative work (like three our four per month), but it's always so much lower pay than corporate work and often by inexperienced people who don't seem like they'd be good to work with, so I pretty much always turn it down in favor of self-producing more of my own short films. I'd rather self-produce and spend my money on something of my own level of quality than loose money by committing to a low paid narrative job with inexperienced filmmakers who will likely make a low quality film. I do think my corporate clients appreciate the various narrative work on my website, so I still think it benefits me as a business, as well as if I ever do start getting the better paying narrative offers as my work improves or I gain more connections. In any case, narrative work is fun, so even if it isn't profitable, we have to sometimes remember that for many of us, filmmaking started out as a hobby, so it's not always just about making money.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

lol...those are all American-dream scenarios. (And true too.)

How about the real world? I guess applying would be one way, if available.

And who shoots for Apple or Google or Amazon or Walmart? Would be nice to be on that team. Maybe it's in-house.

I've shot for Microsoft and Walmart.

 

[NorBro]

I don't doubt it, but who works on the big national campaigns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=oGrSw7wK4no

 

[Eric Coughlin]

As Endgame was an Atlanta production I know various people who worked on it. One of my friends (who may read this post) was a camera PA on Infinity War, making like $170 per day or something not that great, bought a C300 Mark II recently (partially at my encouragement), and now is making $1000-$1500 per day as a DP w/gear, mostly on EPK behind-the-scenes for big budget movies. That said, he went to film school, had done various videos before, had a portfolio, and is a good DP, so it wasn't just jumping from PA to DP just by buying a camera.

Being a PA on a big budget movies may be kind of fun for the first few days, hanging out with the movie stars, getting to tell stories, etc., but as time progresses it essentially becomes a low paid job that isn't necessarily very fulfilling. Another of my friends locally was an electrician in the lighting department on both Avengers (among other big movies like Bad Boys III recently), and he seems to like his job more, the pay is better at around $300-$500 per day (depending on how much overtime). I think he often got his jobs from referrals from various crew members such as the best boy, and sometimes after finishing one big production, the same crew would be brought on for the next big local production.

I personally am not in that market as I'd rather be a big fish on a small shoot than a small fish on a big shoot, and I'm nowhere near the level to be DPing a 100 million dollar budget movie.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I don't doubt it, but who works on the big national campaigns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=oGrSw7wK4no

Probably big shot DPs from Los Angeles who have agents, etc., like Charles Pappert. The stuff I've shot for Microsoft and Walmart were lower end things like events, training videos, and corporate videos, not commercials.