C500 External Recording Options

Liam Hall

Liam Hall

Veteran
Which of the announced recorders will be able to record 4K, 2K or HD at 120FPS?

I know Codex OnboardS has announced support for 120fps, but what of the more affordable options?
 
Convergent Design's Gemini will record Canon RAW with a paid firmware update. $6k for the recorder, $2.5k for the Canon RAW firmware update. AJA's Ki Pro Quad should also support the C500's RAW output as well when it is released later this year @ $4k: http://www.aja.com/en/articles/175/
 
cowpunk52 said:
Convergent Design's Gemini will record Canon RAW with a paid firmware update. $6k for the recorder, $2.5k for the Canon RAW firmware update. AJA's Ki Pro Quad should also support the C500's RAW output as well when it is released later this year @ $4k: http://www.aja.com/en/articles/175/
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As far as I understand it they only record RAW up to 60fps. You need two Gemenis to record 120fps which makes it more expensive than Codex. I haven't seen any mention of 120fps from AJA.
 
The official Canon press release for the C500 does say "The camera also supports frame rates up to 120p in both 4K and 2K modes, providing enhanced creative flexibility for high-speed (slow motion) video capture".
 
Here's how 120fps 4K RAW works, according to the specs page on B&H's C500 listing

RAW 4K OutputUsing a single 3G-SDI output, the C500 is able to output a full 4K RAW (4096 x 2160-pixel) data stream in 10-bit color space, with full Bayer encoding and frame rates up to 60 fps. Using both of the camera's 3G-SDI outputs, the frame rate can jump as high as 120 fps, but with the horizontal resolution reduced by half and then interpolated back in.

source: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855975-REG/Canon_EOS_C500_Cinema_EOS.html
 
What hasn't been pointed out is that if you do the math on 4K output using a single 3G-SDI out, the sampling rate is only 2:1:1 at any frame rate. So, 10-bit color space, but low luma and chroma sampling rate. This harkens back to the days of HDCAM 3:1:1.
 
cowpunk52 said:
Here's how 120fps 4K RAW works, according to the specs page on B&H's C500 listing

RAW 4K OutputUsing a single 3G-SDI output, the C500 is able to output a full 4K RAW (4096 x 2160-pixel) data stream in 10-bit color space, with full Bayer encoding and frame rates up to 60 fps. Using both of the camera's 3G-SDI outputs, the frame rate can jump as high as 120 fps, but with the horizontal resolution reduced by half and then interpolated back in.

source: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855975-REG/Canon_EOS_C500_Cinema_EOS.html
Click to expand...

I read that too, and summized that any recorder that can capture 60FPS RAW should be able to capture half-RAW @ 120fps, but then I read the Gemini press release where it states you need two Gemini's to capture 120fps and then I read the specs for AJA's much lauded new recorder and there's no mention of 120fps there at all. Only option I've found so far is Codex Onboard S or two Geminis. If someone knows different please let us know.
 
Dino said:
What hasn't been pointed out is that if you do the math on 4K output using a single 3G-SDI out, the sampling rate is only 2:1:1 at any frame rate. So, 10-bit color space, but low luma and chroma sampling rate. This harkens back to the days of HDCAM 3:1:1.
Click to expand...

There's no color sampling on raw data...it's just the 4k sensor readings (so it should only take up as much data as a monochrome 4k image). It'll be debayered on the editing system.
 
Gabrobot said:
There's no color sampling on raw data...it's just the 4k sensor readings (so it should only take up as much data as a monochrome 4k image). It'll be debayered on the editing system.
Click to expand...

Thanks, you're right. I meant 2K component that is claimed to be 4:2:2 sampling rate at 10 or 12-bit. This is really 2:1:1, according to a DIT that I trust.
 
Dino said:
Thanks, you're right. I meant 2K component that is claimed to be 4:2:2 sampling rate at 10 or 12-bit. This is really 2:1:1, according to a DIT that I trust.
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Not that I distrust your DIT, but I'd be interested to see the methodology he used to come to that conclusion.
 
Understood Brian. His propeller spins faster than mine. If true(and I believe this person--known him for decades), this has Larry Thorpe's ex-Sony technical approach written all over it. See HDCAM.
 
Someone could give me more information about a Raw 10b 4.2.2 output from the C500 to the new Gemini could be compared to a 12bit RAW output from the Black magic camera for example.
This is the 10bit vs 12bit im missing... Does that mean the C500 sensor only record in 10bit in anycase?

Could i expect the c500 to have a better highlight rollff that the c300 with a stop over dynamic range?

vince*
 
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