C300: C300 vs. FS700 vs. C100 with ER

A

amarss

New member
Hi all, I had posted earlier in Sony asking advice on C300 vs. F3, I have made a decision of going C300 but ofcourse now considering FS700. FS700 does amazing slow motion although quality of video in not as good when compared to C300. I can also upgrade to AXR5 recorder for future proofing with 4k Raw. I can then even sell the camera down the line and move to F5. So very well placed. C300 is a great camera but think at the moment it's over priced by atleast a 1k. It does produce some amazing video and crushes FS700 in ergonomics. Will the FS700 with it's ER give us 422 Raw 12bit? And then you have C100 giving us 422 with external recorder. Does it give us 8bit 50mbit footage out to external recorder? How does this footage compare to C300? What would you recommend I buy, C300 or FS700 or C100 with ER? Thanks for your help.
 
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For FS700 4K capability, let's see the cost

AXR-R5 External Recorder, $6500
HXR-IFR5 Interface Unit, $2000

You also need to buy Sony's proprietary memory card.

For this price, you get 16bit 4K RAW up to 60p (RAW does not have colour sampling, therefore no 422)
 
marvinhello said:
For FS700 4K capability, let's see the cost AXR-R5 External Recorder, $6500 HXR-IFR5 Interface Unit, $2000 You also need to buy Sony's proprietary memory card. For this price, you get 16bit 4K RAW up to 60p (RAW does not have colour sampling, therefore no 422)
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Aha...I didn't consider the HXR price. How would you rate C300 against C100 on ER?
 
If you need high speed shooting there is only one option. If you don't shoot off speed very often then you need to ask yourself what your main type of work is. The C100 can do most of the things the C300 can with a few accessories (HDMI to SDI, external recorder, loupe, EVF) and to my eyes the image is identical to the C300 when externally recorded. But you are introducing new battery sucking elements that on the C300 are all part of the main package.

No matter what the C100 still lacks Genlock and the vast array of video outs that the C300 provides - so if you need all these regularly you are better of with the 300. The monitor and grip are also a lot more configurable with the 300.

I own a C100 and love it. I think if I owned a 300 I would get a lot more rentals, but this isn't a big factor for me. Either camera is only as good as how fast you can pay it off.
 
I was there myself. C300 or FS700... the eternal question... I went for the C300 and never looked back. I rent the FS700 for slo-mo whenever I need it... I LOVE the C300 and - trust me - you will, too...
 
marvinhello said:
For FS700 4K capability, let's see the cost

AXR-R5 External Recorder, $6500
HXR-IFR5 Interface Unit, $2000

You also need to buy Sony's proprietary memory card.

For this price, you get 16bit 4K RAW up to 60p (RAW does not have colour sampling, therefore no 422)
Click to expand...

that extra price and bad ergonomics - only related to original sony product! Now with external recorder from 3rd party its Great option, if say true i am jealous now my self!

http://www.convergent-design.com/Products/Odyssey7.aspx#Overview-19

for fs700 u need Odyssey7Q - its around 2500 usd i believe + hdd = around 4000$ for everything + codec that u can rent when u need raw, but there will be simple compressed codecs included for free , but at the same time it includes super duper 8bit monitor - bang! love it already

i want it anyway for my c300, but now i maybe just buy the 2nd cam - sony fs700

6bit tvlogic cost more then Odyssey7 - i just will buy it as external monitor anyway!
 
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I use the FS700 and C300 (and F3 a bit) on a current project (commercial).

There is no comparison. The FS700 has good slowmotion (which is what I use it for), but the C300 has a better image (in log mode), internal codec and the handling is of another class altogether. The F3 has the best image (with Slog), but it is also much harder to handle and lacks features I like with the C300 (internal 422 codec, stabilized 70-200 lenses etc).
 
I've owned both the FS700 and C300 and I have to side very greatly with the C300. A few reasons why:

1. Video quality at 24p has noticeably better dynamic range and colors. Hard to explain but I always found myself having to add vignettes or do heavy color grading to add life to FS700 shots. C300's image is astounding and absolutely perfect for certain kinds of work (corporate and documentary, especially.)

2. FS700 low-light capabilities are not as good as my 5D Mark III. C300 is ridiculously good at this with even 20,000 ISO (with in-camera noise reduction) being acceptable.

3. The reality of super slow mo is less life changing and more of a pain in the butt than you would expect. Shutter speeds for 120fps and 240fps are very high and the shots are therefore very dark. ISO performance in Super Slow Mo mode is awful so your only choices are to blast the footage with a ton of light. At high frame rates, most practical lighting will produce a flicker. This means that most slow mo must be shot in the presence of good quality continuous light (or that old standby, the sun.)

For all that trouble, you would be surprised how often 60p is the right aesthetic choice for what I'm shooting.

4. Form factor is a much, much bigger deal than it sounds like. The FS700's ridiculous box with LCD on top form-factor is actually pretty easy to get used to. It works well on a monopod and tripod and you can rig it fairly easily. The less-often talked about part of this comparison is just how drop-dead genius the C300 design is. It's a bloody marvel of engineering, designed to be held comfortably from literally any angle you can think of.

The C300's shape legitimately inspires me to find better shots. I can think less and let my eye guide the camera where it wants to go. The FS is more deliberate and slow, functional but not particularly sexy.

--

Both cameras are fantastic but if you have the money for the C300 I can't imagine being disappointed you made that choice.
 
just one significant + to the C300:
it's a damn tough little camera!

i work a lot with it from a small production company, who were one of the first in germany to get the C300.
i made shots in horrible sand storms, i shot with it in -25°C, it fell into the mud, it got wet in the rain, it got dirty with flour, and so on. and it works like the first day.
 
nebular said:
just one significant + to the C300:
it's a damn tough little camera!

i work a lot with it from a small production company, who were one of the first in germany to get the C300.
i made shots in horrible sand storms, i shot with it in -25°C, it fell into the mud, it got wet in the rain, it got dirty with flour, and so on. and it works like the first day.
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strange.. there were so many reports that c300 is sucking dust on its sensor like a vacuum cleaner...., - but u are saying it went through any possible horrible situation and is still working with out any help from service?

thats awesome if its true! i was very scared to bring my c300 to a beach, because there is no service center in country and i have to ship it abroad in case of anything... like if it sucks in some dust.
 
of course it may happen that there is some minor dust on the nd's oder the sensor, but that's nothing which makes the camera unusable.

actually, i examined the sensor of that particular C300 last week or so, and there was some dust. but no effect on the pictures so far. and this C300 was in heavily usage since the day, it was released.
yes, i have to admit, probably the time has come that it needs some professional sensor cleaning.


by the way, the first time i had the FS700 in my hands on a production, that big plastic srew, that tightens the side grip, broke into two pieces
 
marvinhello said:
For FS700 4K capability, let's see the cost

AXR-R5 External Recorder, $6500
HXR-IFR5 Interface Unit, $2000

You also need to buy Sony's proprietary memory card.

For this price, you get 16bit 4K RAW up to 60p (RAW does not have colour sampling, therefore no 422)
Click to expand...

This is not true. Odyssey7Q (less than $3000) would allow 4K video (at-least 10-bit) on FS700


 
anatusa said:
but there are some downsides as well - for example no 60p 4k on Odyssey7Q
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It's not impossible that in future Odyssey7Q or other third-party recorders would be able to do 60p 4K. The sensor and the camera obviously can output upto 120 fps in 4K in RAW.
 
Too much is being said about future proofing. Remember, the technology is evolving. Will you use the 4K of a current camera after 5 years? Absolutely NO. The compression of the files will become more and more efficient. Remember even the so called RAW is also compressed. The noise or the lack of it in high ISOs will be another factor among others. I will buy a camera for its current use. Future use is just a load of bull.

In the overall scheme of things, 1K means nothing. Unless you are buying this for hobby, you should make money out of the camera and/or fulfill your vision now.

I returned from a filming trip from the North east of India. I tumbled from the hill top and came down sliding. Fortunately my partner saved me. Else, I would have been in the gorge. Now I am recovered from injuries. Is there any certainty about life? We need to plan for today and hope that tomorrow is rosy. However, there is no guarantee.

We can't say with any certainty about doing certain things in the future as with time everything changes. You, your style of shooting, clients, requirements, technology, and ability to pay more...

Recently someone was asking me for advice to choose between FS700 vs 1D C. I suggested him the 1D C and he is now extremely happy. The camera is flying through the rentals as the film industry guys love the files of the 1D C. I feel in these forums, people argue more on the basis of specs. One needs to go beyond that, as implementation of the technology is different.

I crib with Canon about the lack of slowmotion in 1080p in the C300. However, I know that the colours, quality of files ie high iso ability and rich details in a small package ensures that I am good.

When the C300 was announced, people in this forum and elsewhere ripped it apart due to the 8 bits. Today we don't hear about 8 bits in C300 anymore. Similarly C100 was blasted, but now it is referred as baby C300 by some and a lot of people are ok with its AVCHD files.

If you still can't select the camera, then better to rent out the cameras, shoot some files and take it to a client, director etc and see their reactions.

amarss said:
Hi all, I had posted earlier in Sony asking advice on C300 vs. F3, I have made a decision of going C300 but ofcourse now considering FS700. FS700 does amazing slow motion although quality of video in not as good when compared to C300. I can also upgrade to AXR5 recorder for future proofing with 4k Raw. I can then even sell the camera down the line and move to F5. So very well placed. C300 is a great camera but think at the moment it's over priced by atleast a 1k. It does produce some amazing video and crushes FS700 in ergonomics. Will the FS700 with it's ER give us 422 Raw 12bit? And then you have C100 giving us 422 with external recorder. Does it give us 8bit 50mbit footage out to external recorder? How does this footage compare to C300? What would you recommend I buy, C300 or FS700 or C100 with ER? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
 
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