C300: C300 or ENG camera

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EMA747

New member
How does the C300 stack up against an traditional ENG type camera for news/broadcast work? I am weighing up purchasing a C300 or a Sony PMW-400 (assuming price is similar to pmw-350 as has been rumoured). They both seem to have some big pros and cons.

C300 pros -
Small (I have some work next year in Borneo and lightweight would certainly be an advantage).
Good low light
Creating shallow DOF

PMW-400 pros -
Broadcast industry standard ENG type camera
Sony upgrade to XAVC 4K
B4 type zoom lens vs limited range SLR lenses.

The C300 seems ideal for documentary work but is it something news broadcasters would use? You don't seem much of the shallow DOF look the C300 gives in typical news reports.
On the other hand ENG shoulder mount camera can be a real pain in the rear to cart about especially on planes and also not very discreet when you need to keep a low profile.

I currently use a Canon XF300 and XF100 and DSLR.

Which camera should I be looking at to upgrade?
 
EMA747 said:
How does the C300 stack up against an traditional ENG type camera for news/broadcast work?
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For news work? Doesn't stack up at all compared to a traditional B4 mount ENG cam. The XF300 / 100 you have are the best middle ground between a small portable cam and usability for ENG. The XF300 already shoots a broadcast ready codec.

News reports are about getting the shot period.
 
I'm gonna have to say - go with the PMW-400. Use the right tool for the job. If you're doing news, a 2/3" shoulder camera with a solid ENG zoom lens is really hard to beat (and while bulkier, there are plenty of bags available that will hold the kit and are approved for airplane carry-on). Keep the DSLR for beauty cutaways and when you need to be discreet. Or, actually, if you need to be discreet, your best bet may be something like a XA20.

Large sensor cameras are for creating cinema-style productions, and I think you'll find them cumbersome in a fast paced broadcast news environment.
 
dustylense said:
WHy not just hold onto your XF300 and 100. Great cameras that are broadcast ready already.
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No doubt this is probably the best bet right now. Unless you're losing jobs because you don't have the latest and greatest, there's not a lot of reason to shell out that money. The XF series are fantastic cameras.
 
Noel Evans said:
For news work? Doesn't stack up at all compared to a traditional B4 mount ENG cam. The XF300 / 100 you have are the best middle ground between a small portable cam and usability for ENG. The XF300 already shoots a broadcast ready codec.

News reports are about getting the shot period.
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+1000
 
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With an f5 and the right converter/eng zoom you get the 2/3 look and zoom range, or stick on a fast prime and get a smaller camera and the cine look or add the recorder and have something to challenge an alexa seems the sweet spot to me if you could fund that..
 
morgan_moore said:
With an f5 and the right converter/eng zoom you get the 2/3 look and zoom range, or stick on a fast prime and get a smaller camera and the cine look or add the recorder and have something to challenge an alexa seems the sweet spot to me if you could fund that..
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Well, heck, you could add a B4 to EF adapter to a C300. It's a cumbersome solution no matter how you slice it. You can hammer a nail with a pipe wrench, but who in there right mind is going to do that? Pick the right tool for the job. Why would you want a raw recorder for broadcast news?!
 
dustylense said:
WHy not just hold onto your XF300 and 100. Great cameras that are broadcast ready already.
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There is a lot of truth in that I guess. The XFs are really good at what they do and I think the C300 is maybe more a lust that a need. No doubt I would love to own one and I do have the budget to buy one but with my sensible head on do I really NEED it..... Looking at C300 footage on vimeo compared to XF300 footage there is no doubt the C300 is much sharper. Having said that Brian you are correct that in reality I am not losing work by only having the XFs. I get the impression that if you know what you are looking for it's fairly easy to tell them apart but the general viewing public probably can't tell and/or don't really care.

Maybe I'm better saving the funds and upgrading only WHEN I absolutely need to.
 
cowpunk52 said:
There's so much wisdom in that it can hardly be described.
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Some of the videos I have seen with the C300 make it hard to not want one! Same when you go to a news story and most of the other guys are rocking the latest ENG cameras.
But yeah the sensible thing I guess is to upgrade only when not doing holds you back rather than when you want the latest gear.
 
Last week I shot the second episode of a new MSNBC cop show, typical ENG/Doc shoot. The first week I used a proper camera for the job because much of it was handheld and we moved so fast I could not be troubled swapping lenses so I had the Panasonic HPX2700, although with a full brick battery it is very heavy. The editor asked if I could use a F3 for the second episode so I could "throw the background more out of focus" to give it a "more stylized look". Not knowing the F3 I chose the C300 and besides the interviews it was a nightmare to keep up with the action on my shoulder rig (see below) although the footage looked great, and I am very experienced with my tricked out Tilta rig. So I had two episodes (3 day shoots) to compare: one with a ENG camera and one with a C300 Frankenrig and to do an ENG shoot you need an ENG camera. If the pace would have been say 25% slower then using the C300 would have been a breeze.

The reason is if you are doing an ENG shoot, meaning fast, a shoulder rig is not as good as a shoulder mount camera which becomes part of you, and one lens handles 90% of all situations. Constantly changing lenses and keeping track of their caps, shades, etc. is a pain. And you must have declicked lenses (which I must get) to roll exposure without the viewer noticing. So all in all, if your market is ENG I'd say go with the full rig.

However...the way the rest of the non-ENG market is going you'd be better off with a C300 because that's what is getting popular. The main problem with it is you can't do slow mo in 1080 which I understand is why they dropped the price. If you want TV clients then the F5 is the way to go. Why? Because the big boys like Discovery are now insisting on 4K to "future proof" the material. Dateline and NBC network and ESPN presently like the F3. I have owned many cameras and I look for their pay off point. If you do buy an ENG model and stay in news then it is a great investment. But if you want to do docs, nice looking corporate, produce your own material, etc. then a C300 (and possible a C100 with on board recorder) will suffice. It all depends on what market you want to troll. Lately I have been servicing clients who want the shallowest depth of field look without going to a DSLR and in that regard my AF100 wasn't cutting it.

Because I need to use so many different models I have developed great deals for renting from private owners, so I can pick up and drop off at all hours, where I only need the body, lenses and batteries and I have my custom scene file cards. If you live in a major city you should look into that. Too many models are being requested nowadays. That may be the way for you to go and keep saving until the final killer model arrives.


See ya,
 

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Ned that C300 rig does look a bit unwieldy for ENG/run and gun work!


To my mind it seems the video camera market is in a bit of a state of change right now and there seem to be a few cameras that are very very good but not quite right (ie the C300 not doing 60p slow mo). I kind of wonder if hanging on for another 2-3 years might be wise. By that time we might have a new C300 that addresses some of the issues and we might know if 4K is the way to go by then (it's still a long way off being practical for my work). TV news might be adopted shallow DOF C300 type footage by then or it might not.
 
cowpunk52 said:
Well, heck, you could add a B4 to EF adapter to a C300. It's a cumbersome solution no matter how you slice it. You can hammer a nail with a pipe wrench, but who in there right mind is going to do that? Pick the right tool for the job. Why would you want a raw recorder for broadcast news?!
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Im just saying how an s35 can be built for different jobs particularly the f5 which IMO made the c300 a dead duck
 
EMA747 said:
Ned that C300 rig does look a bit unwieldy for ENG/run and gun work!


To my mind it seems the video camera market is in a bit of a state of change right now and there seem to be a few cameras that are very very good but not quite right (ie the C300 not doing 60p slow mo)
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To me it is clear that most cams are not "right" .. And there is a small chance that the f5 is "right" - it is the only cam I'd consider buying at the moment

c300 has no Slomo no route to raw or 4k no fat codec and questionable ergonomics

In the uk the f5 which has all of those is the same price (excluding media)

of course the is huge amount to be said for waiting/renting etc
 
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morgan_moore said:
To me it is clear that most cams are not "right" .. And there is a small chance that the f5 is "right" - it is the only cam I'd consider buying at the moment

c300 has no Slomo no route to raw or 4k no fat codec and questionable ergonomics

In the uk the f5 which has all of those is the same price (excluding media)

of course the is huge amount to be said for waiting/renting etc
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Doesn't the F5 require much more expensive lenses? Are there any EF mount adaptors for it?
 
Since when did the C300 not have 60P? ANd while were at it...ENG is short for "Electronic News Gathering". Most broadcasts are sent at 720p or 1080i (most if not all) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television_in_the_United_States
Which is still why Mpeg-2 is a common codec for many broadcasts. So while you're sitting there watching The Walking Dead, you are seeing it in 1080i. If you buy it on BlueRay you can see it in 1080p. When you watch The Dark Knight on HBO, you are seeing it in 1080i. If you watch ESPN you are seeing it in 720p.

Now if you have DirectTv and buy an On Demand program, you will see it in 1080p.
 
Being a C300 owner and having owned Sony EX1, PMW350, PMW500, and F800 I would go with the PMW400 in a second over the C300 for ENG work. When the 400 comes out I am thinking of adding one just for that reason. The C300 is a great camera but it is not an ENG camera.

And of course as mentioned above. Only upgrade when you NEED to for a clients needs!
 
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