C300: C300 II LUT that matches the internal C300 II LUT (and in XF Utility)

J

jcs

Veteran
I just tried Proxy recording with LUT enabled on the proxies. I used the ARRI (production) matrix in addition to Canon Log 2 and Cinema Gamut. Live in-camera, proxies, and Canon Log 2 + production matrix + Cinema Gamut with XF Utility LUT all look great. However if I use Canon's only downloadable C300 II LUT to Rec709 (or WideDR), it doesn't match the in-camera or XF utility LUT. It's not just color that's way off, the final gain is also lower.

Does Canon have an official LUT with production matrix enabled available for download, or is it only built into the camera and XF Utility?
 
Yeah, that's a bunch of LUTs in a zip, I tried the Canon Log 2 Cinema Gamut to 709 (no version specifies the Production matrix option, however I wouldn't expect that to effect gain, only color). Doesn't come close to matching the LUT applied in-camera or in the proxies.
 
It's not the one you're looking for, but if you shoot c-log2 + production matrix, you might get very good results using an Alexa Log C to rec709. This makes sense since I believe "production matrix" is meant to mimic arri cameras.
 
drummondb said:
It's not the one you're looking for, but if you shoot c-log2 + production matrix, you might get very good results using an Alexa Log C to rec709. This makes sense since I believe "production matrix" is meant to mimic arri cameras.
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I'll second this. It's all I've been using with my C300 MKII. By comparison the Canon Rec709 generally doesn't look that great, IMO.
 
drummondb said:
Also, I believe this fellow's blog has a link to for many official Canon C300/II LUTS converted for use in popular grading apps: http://www.thebrutesquad.com/x-htm/
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Haha that's from 2015 before Canon fixed a problem with the LUTs I reported here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?342105-C300-Mark-II-Official-Canon-LUTs . He simply changed all the LUTs based on my detailed ('ambiguous' lol) instructions and reposted them:

So I dug a little deeper and found an ambiguous comment online on how to adjust one line of code in each pre-set to get them to import. I did that and now we have sweet sweet LUTS.
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I've been using the ARRI LUTs in PP CC, and they work OK, however after shooting with proxies, they have a different look which I like and want to replicated using the same LUTs Canon is using in the camera and in XF Utility. Why are these LUTs kept secret? Makes no sense we should be able to match the proxies exactly (especially since they look great!).
 
It looks like he also updated the list some time later when they released C log 3. There's a whole list of LUTs there. Are you sure none of them match? Here are all the options for Cinema Gamut and C Log 2:


CANON C300mkII - CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT.709_BT.709_33_Ver1.0

CANON C300mkII - CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT.709_WideDR_33_Ver1.0

CANON C300mkII - CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT.2020_BT.709_33_Ver1.0

CANON C300mkII - CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT.2020_WideDR_33_Ver1.0

CANON C300mkII - CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-DCIP3_DCI_33_Ver1.0
 
Yeah drummondb I tried those, 709 Wide DR looks the best, but not even a close match to the proxies.

ChristianMoriarty- cool idea, I've done similar things for GPU LUTs for iPhone apps. That's a bit a hassle and not sure if it will generalize to all shots as a proper LUT would (didn't see the LUT util to create a 3D LUT for a HALD on lut.lu?). Thanks for the tip.
 
Hmm, now I'm curious too. Canon has a PDF guide to to the various flavors of C Log, and in it they specifically say the "Canon lookup table Version 201612" contains the LUTs used in camera. Are these the LUTs the Brute Squad guy used to make the Premiere conversions? There are so many options in that zip file, and I don't understand all of them, but it looks like it has more than the ones included in the Brute Squad download.
 
drummondb said:
Hmm, now I'm curious too. Canon has a PDF guide to to the various flavors of C Log, and in it they specifically say the "Canon lookup table Version 201612" contains the LUTs used in camera. Are these the LUTs the Brute Squad guy used to make the Premiere conversions? There are so many options in that zip file, and I don't understand all of them, but it looks like it has more than the ones included in the Brute Squad download.
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He used the old ones, which didn't work with Premiere without modification. I tried all relevant LUTs in the .zip, they don't match what the camera is doing internally (or XF Utility).
 
This all seems like a hassle. Is there an easy way to expose in camera and them apply the lut in post using PP CC? It seems like the Canon LUT is not even the best one to use.....
 
jcs said:
I just tried Proxy recording with LUT enabled on the proxies. I used the ARRI (production) matrix in addition to Canon Log 2 and Cinema Gamut. Live in-camera, proxies, and Canon Log 2 + production matrix + Cinema Gamut with XF Utility LUT all look great. However if I use Canon's only downloadable C300 II LUT to Rec709 (or WideDR), it doesn't match the in-camera or XF utility LUT. It's not just color that's way off, the final gain is also lower.

Does Canon have an official LUT with production matrix enabled available for download, or is it only built into the camera and XF Utility?
Click to expand...

I am having this exact same problem, have you found any type of fix... I dont understand why they made this such a hassle. It seems like if you expose right and look at the preset it should work fine!
 
black film guild said:
I am having this exact same problem, have you found any type of fix... I dont understand why they made this such a hassle. It seems like if you expose right and look at the preset it should work fine!
Click to expand...

I'm getting acceptable results using the ARRI LUTs in PP CC. However I really like the look I get with the color in the proxies, and would love to have the option to get that look shooting Canon Log 2 (so I can tweak highlights & shadows as needed in post). Shooting in 709 + WideDR and baked in color is something I'm testing, though I'm still puzzled why Canon is keeping the builtin LUT secret. Oversight or business reason?
 
black film guild said:
I am having this exact same problem, have you found any type of fix... I dont understand why they made this such a hassle. It seems like if you expose right and look at the preset it should work fine!
Click to expand...

In my 2015 version of Premiere CC I found that my footage was being clipped on input into video range - and the LUTs are built to be applied to full range image. So the end result was much more contrasty and darker images.

I've only been able to get the LUTs to look as I would expect within DaVinci. I think the problem is inside of Premiere with that scale.

But the BT.709 LUT inside of the camera is just a Wide DR Gamma Curve and transform down from your shooting color space to BT.709 - Page 167 of the manual.
 
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