C100: C100MII vs A7s?

C

Carcaridon

Well-known member
Hey guys.
Really having a hard time deciding between these two. I like Canon and have been with them since the 5DMII>5DMIII, but it seems the A7s is just pushing the envelope a little more. The original C100 had great images, and it seems the C100MII is an incremental update. So I would expect just as good, if not, better images. But with the same money I could get the A7s and the Atomos Shogun and have a pretty decent setup. Anyone else in this boat? Seems the lowerend cameras it's tough to make a decision.

Thanks.
 
I have heard some mixed thoughts on the Shogun. I am a fan of the A7s look but I'm personally unsure if the Shogun is the best solution for its weaknesses. I know CalebPike at dslrvideoshooter.com reposted a review of the Shogun that's very in depth. Also Eoshd.com has an article at it.

Ive vey only used the original C100. I like it a lot especially for one man band shooting. The minimull amount of accessories needed are a huge bonus.

A friend of mine bought a used A7s on Craigslist for $1900 and he loves it. I know he has used the original c100 maybe I can get him to weigh in on this.

I hope that helps a little in your search for a decision.
 
Hey

Depends on what you're shooting / what you need etc.

If you need 4K -> decision made.
If you're heavily invested in Canon Glass -> decision made. (I tried adapters with my Canon lenses, horrible. I have e-mount lenses for the A7s now)

I own both, I find lately for shooting weddings I've been reaching for the A7s a bit more than my C100 (mk1), as I can do a bit of slow mo, and the low light ability obviously.

If I didn't own either of them, I would go C100 mk2, as its a more full-out solution as a main camera, less stuff to 'deal with' (such as no XLR, crappy battery life, a bit too small, etc etc etc).
 
I would certainly go with the C100 mk II over a consumer mirrorless with a plasticy 7" recorder on the hot shoe, it's just an awkward setup with many downsides as opposed to the completely balanced C100. You get NDs, XLRs, great audio quality, huge battery life, much better ergonomics with 15 assignable buttons, great colour straight of the card, Dual pixel AF, and many more.

I guess as mentioned earlier, if you really need to deliver work in 4K, the decision is already made. The C100 is not a 4K camera, it's HD.
 
C100 cost £4,282.80 inc VAT . Sony a7s you can get for £1250 . Yes £1250 from Hong kong . My friend order 2 of them and he did not had to pay any tax . I know he was lucky , any way c100m2 is overprice .
 
Looks like the C100MII seems to be the clear winner on advice. Honestly I've been leaning more toward it but the 4K in the A7s seems more future proof than what Canon has been offering lately. I'm invested in Zeiss ZE's so the C100MII would play nice with them. I'm wondering what Canon will announce at NAB and if that's worth waiting for.
 
Erik Naso would be good to chime in here. He does a lot of work with his A7s using a cage and a recorder, and has also done lots of really great work with his "OG" C100. I think that if you're just going to have one camera, for most of people's work, the C100 Mark II is the clear winner here. The A7s can certainly match it or perhaps beat it (low light and 4K). But having it all in one package without having to build it is worth it for me. But if your work does allow the time to build and setup, and perhaps isn't moving around too much, then the A7s becomes a contender (in my book).

If you have the budget (which I understand you probably don't.. I sure don't), I think that the A7s is probably the perfect B cam to buy right now.

As far as 4K goes, I'm not even worried about that at all right now. I'm sure my next camera after the C100 Mark II will have it. Maybe it'll be needed then. Until then, if I have the occasional job that requires it, then the job should also have enough of a budget to cover rental of an FS7 (and media), or a C500, or C300 Mark II, or whatever is available then.
 
I have two C100 and wanted a better camera then my Canon MK III as a 3rd camera. So I bought the Sony A7s. I have only had A7s for less then a week and only used it a little on one job but after using it I would much rather use my C100 as the main camera. It is all there, it all works. The A7s has a good picture, better then the Canon MK III but not as good as the C100. I am sure the more I use the A7s the more I will like it, but I do not see it ever replacing my C100. I do not need 4K anytime soon. If you have the money, get the C100 Mk II. I am sure it will be a joy to use.
 
Also with the C100, a small expediture of a Ninja 2 boosts the horsepower substantially, to that of a C300 from what I have heard. I think that weighs into the decision as well, I don't own either, just in the same quandary. And what is more important than good focus? (except good exposure in low light!!)
 
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Carcaridon said:
Looks like the C100MII seems to be the clear winner on advice. Honestly I've been leaning more toward it but the 4K in the A7s seems more future proof than what Canon has been offering lately.
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Your conclusion is really inteesting in 2015 (the year for 4K dominance); have you considered all 4K, full-frame look, adaptability with any lens, 120FPS, incredible low light performance, 12M still image, and so on and forth? The only meaningful set IMO would be an A7S with a used/second-hand $3000 C100 to make sure getting freelancer jobs where C100/C300 is requested by the producer. A7S has become the fav cam for a number of pros. In my country Sony is the leading vieography brand.
 
Well, this is the Canon section of dvxuser.

Valid points can be made for both cameras. There are many users for whom the C100 mkII will be a vastly superior camera—and you are likely to find them here.

But then again, visit the Sony section and you will no doubt find users there who prefer the A7s.
 
I have a friend who recently bought an A7s and he loves it. We wanted to do a head to head in a real life situation between it and my 5DMIII. I need to see them side by side and see what I like/don't like on the A7s. I did this with the C100 and the 5D as well. Not sure if it was operator error but I liked the 5D better in that situation. I could see that the C100 had slightly better DR, but it was very marginal, maybe 1 stop. Something easily controlled when shooting on the 5D to keep it in line with the C100. Again, could have been operator error. But I'd love to see that with the A7s. The only thing holding me back on the C100MII is a potential need someday for 4k. No idea why Canon won't allow this in a sub $9k camera when everyone else is doing it.
 
Carcaridon said:
I have a friend who recently bought an A7s and he loves it. We wanted to do a head to head in a real life situation between it and my 5DMIII. I need to see them side by side and see what I like/don't like on the A7s. I did this with the C100 and the 5D as well. Not sure if it was operator error but I liked the 5D better in that situation. I could see that the C100 had slightly better DR, but it was very marginal, maybe 1 stop. Something easily controlled when shooting on the 5D to keep it in line with the C100. Again, could have been operator error. But I'd love to see that with the A7s. The only thing holding me back on the C100MII is a potential need someday for 4k. No idea why Canon won't allow this in a sub $9k camera when everyone else is doing it.
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I had lunch with a photographer a few days ago (told me he has 45 cameras) and he brought along his Sony A7s I couldn't believe how small it was compared to my 5D3, he even complained it was difficult to use because of the small size. The 5D3 and the C100 just fit in your hand, and it feels responsive and natural, you are not crammed into an awkward space.

I also in some ways prefer the image of the 5D3 over the C100, but these days I always grab the C100 because it's easier to use, and the image is so good! You hear all kinds of Bullshart on the internet these days comparing cameras like they are foosball teams and you have to pick a side.

I've never used the Sony A7s but from what I see it's not a life changer, I don't see anything that would compel me to run out and sell all my Canon lenses and cameras for a Sony A7s for gods sake! If I wanted a life changing event to take place, I'd get the GH4 or LX1000..... but change is not always a welcome thing.

If you want 4K ..... two years from now when it will be mainstream (maybe) the prices will drop like a rock, and then you won't need external recorders, the only affordable 4K camera out now is the GH4. The Sony with a Shogun? you might as well shoot raw on a 5D3 or wait until the dust settles.
 
Carcaridon said:
I'm now starting to think of doing a C100MII with the Shogun. This then puts me in the FS7 price territory.
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Don't forget that the FS7's media is super expensive, in comparison to SD cards or CF cards.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086276-REG/sony_qd_g32a_32gb_g_series_xqd.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086277-REG/sony_qd_g64a_64gb_g_series_xqd.html

I may have considered it after Philip Bloom's raving review on it. But I like to have a lot of backup media. So I knew it wasn't right for me once I saw the prices of the XQD cards.
 
I have the C100 mk1 and A7s... I've had both since the month they were released and use both a lot for work. I use my Ninja Blade with both of them and also a Wooden Cage for the A7s. I own a ton of Canon glass and also a set of Zeiss Contax Primes modded to EF.

The C100 is a really great camera. Easy to pick up and shoot, beautiful images, Cinema-lock holds highlights well and is nice. Colors kick ass. Dual record gives peace of mind. Personally I never use the ProRes recordings except in special situations, because the AVCHD holds up great and is so much smaller to store and backup. Canon lenses are very good and cheap. Honestly, clients love this camera and so do I. There are some things I wish it had, like SDI, high speed options (though 60i is fine) and better internal recording, but it was a great value and has made me a ton of money. I wouldn't spend more at this point for the C100 mk2 but if I was buying again of course I'd take it. The improvements seem nice.

The A7s could definitely be a main camera. The image is detailed, relatively artifact free, robust, and has decent high speed options. Plus it's such a small and beautiful camera. APSC option is seriously killer. Stills are jaw dropping. This camera is always in the bag and always comes out for something... as a B-Camera it sometimes looks better than the C100 for detail shots.

Downsides... for me, I shoot way too much interview content to rely on something without internal XLR. The handle looks like a good solution but is steep. I use mine with a Metabones mk3 and it has issues but works okay. Picture profiles suck on this camera, though. It has such a nice picture but the colors look either too green or too magenta. Slog2 at ISO3200 is a huge pain. Beautiful, but I can NEVER get it to match Canon-log so what's the point? ND filters internal are such a huge deal, it doesn't seem like it at first but in a run and gun situation they are honestly necessary. By the time I get a matte box on this thing it's more cumbersome than the C100. Battery life sucks too, but is manageable.

From the reviews I've seen of the Shogun I've decided to pass entirely, which is ironic since the main reasons I bought it were high speed and 4K. But the Shogun seems unusable in a professional scenario for two reasons:

- No dual record from A7s
- Battery life under an hour (and no hot swapping like on other Atomos products)

Build quality is also a big concern but I could get over it. Those two, though, pretty much turn me off at such a steep price point. 4K from the camera will be a bit of novelty at this point anyways, and very cumbersome. I would not count on this as a serious solution.

If you are a hybrid shooter or need minimal form factor get A7s. Otherwise C100 by a mile.
 
Wow. That review turned me off the Shogun a bit. I might have to research that out more or go with the Ninja Blade. The blade just seems like it's close to being inline for an update any day. I would be surprised if we didn't see something for it at NAB. Now with the C100MII doing 1080/60p, the blade is missing a key factor of the C100 upgrade.
 
remsyatassi said:
I have the C100 mk1 and A7s... I've had both since the month they were released and use both a lot for work. I use my Ninja Blade with both of them and also a Wooden Cage for the A7s. I own a ton of Canon glass and also a set of Zeiss Contax Primes modded to EF.

The C100 is a really great camera. Easy to pick up and shoot, beautiful images, Cinema-lock holds highlights well and is nice. Colors kick ass. Dual record gives peace of mind. Personally I never use the ProRes recordings except in special situations, because the AVCHD holds up great and is so much smaller to store and backup. Canon lenses are very good and cheap. Honestly, clients love this camera and so do I. There are some things I wish it had, like SDI, high speed options (though 60i is fine) and better internal recording, but it was a great value and has made me a ton of money. I wouldn't spend more at this point for the C100 mk2 but if I was buying again of course I'd take it. The improvements seem nice.

The A7s could definitely be a main camera. The image is detailed, relatively artifact free, robust, and has decent high speed options. Plus it's such a small and beautiful camera. APSC option is seriously killer. Stills are jaw dropping. This camera is always in the bag and always comes out for something... as a B-Camera it sometimes looks better than the C100 for detail shots.

Downsides... for me, I shoot way too much interview content to rely on something without internal XLR. The handle looks like a good solution but is steep. I use mine with a Metabones mk3 and it has issues but works okay. Picture profiles suck on this camera, though. It has such a nice picture but the colors look either too green or too magenta. Slog2 at ISO3200 is a huge pain. Beautiful, but I can NEVER get it to match Canon-log so what's the point? ND filters internal are such a huge deal, it doesn't seem like it at first but in a run and gun situation they are honestly necessary. By the time I get a matte box on this thing it's more cumbersome than the C100. Battery life sucks too, but is manageable.

From the reviews I've seen of the Shogun I've decided to pass entirely, which is ironic since the main reasons I bought it were high speed and 4K. But the Shogun seems unusable in a professional scenario for two reasons:

- No dual record from A7s
- Battery life under an hour (and no hot swapping like on other Atomos products)

Build quality is also a big concern but I could get over it. Those two, though, pretty much turn me off at such a steep price point. 4K from the camera will be a bit of novelty at this point anyways, and very cumbersome. I would not count on this as a serious solution.

If you are a hybrid shooter or need minimal form factor get A7s. Otherwise C100 by a mile.
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+1. 100% what he said.
 
have you considered the samsung nx1? No need for external recorder (but slow conversions to prores are needed) and the price for camera+2 zoom lenses is in the C100MII ballpark
 
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