C100: C100 Mark II for filming football from the sideline

BrandonT

BrandonT

Well-known member
Hey folks. I have a project going where I'll have a few cameras going to get game highlights for an end of the season highlight reel for a high school football team. I'll have one cam op on top of the pressbox for a medium shot. And then on the sideline, I'll sometimes have just one person with a zoom camera, sometimes it will be me with my C100 Mark II, and sometimes both.

So I'd like some tips with shooting football from the sidelines with my C100 Mark II handheld. I'm going to rent a 70 - 200mm F2.8 version II. This guy is using that lens with the 2x extender and I really like his shots. This is his comment on how he uses it: "70-200mm with 2x extender. So 140mm-400mm is my range. Works on those longs shots, just hard to widen out when the players get really close. So I keep moving down the field to find a balance."

https://vimeo.com/113329871

https://vimeo.com/109178244

So I'm not sure if I'd want to use the extender or not.

For shutter speed, it needs to be a factor of 1/60 to avoid stadium light flickering, right? I'm guessing 1/120 is better for football, right?

It's a C100 Mark II, so I can shoot 60p if I want to do slow motion. But I see where other people do slow motion, but when they have it playing at 1x speed, it doesn't have that 60p look-- it looks 24p (or "normal"). How do they accomplish this? Or are they actually shooting at 24p, and using an application like Twixtor for slow motion?

And does anyone know the approximate color temperature of high school stadium lighting?

Thanks!
 
Brandon,
Can't talk about american football. However, I do use the 70-200 f2.8 IS II lens with 2xII TC. You can also use the latest 2xIII TC. I am fine with it. Since your C100 Mark II has got DPAF, it should also be easier to hold focus throughout the zoom range. I used this combination a lot for a HBO doc on athletics. They were obviously happy with the quality as I got hired after that. Don't have the links. However can share this wildlife video. The first shot is zooming in from 140mm to 400mm (with the 70-200 f2.8 II with 2xII TC. ). Then the next shot is at 400m with the same combo. After that is at 800mm.
https://youtu.be/dS_AsiDMiGQ

Cheers,
Sabyasachi
 
The right tool for the right job. Your non-game stuff looks great! C100's perfect for the interviews and all the b-roll. However, for the action I really think you need to go with a camera that has a real smooth servo zoom lens so when the player is coming at you a smooth zoom keeps your composition. So you can zoom with one hand and rack focus with the other. That's how it's been done for years, still lenses are like swimming with weights. If you watch football on TV there is always what's called a "framing zoom", you don't notice it because we grew up watching them. I used to do a lot of sports plus my kid was in soccer.

I'd suggest a used Panasonic HPX300 or something similar. The kit lens gives you a chest up at 55' so if you are at the top of the bleachers you'd need something longer.

Also, if the games are during the day having a rubber eyecup really helps since it will go on for hours.

But in sum, if you want the game footage stylized then yes, stick with the C100 but if they want to "see the play", and the public expects to see the play, then that means a camera with a smooth, zoomable lens. If it's The Big Game, God forbid if you didn't get The Big Play. These types of clients don't know nuthin' bout no technical stuff...They'll come rushing up and excitedly ask if you captured the action.
 
I agree with Ned. I have shot sports with the C300, my C100 and with many shoulder mounted 3 sensor broadcast cameras. A S35 imager, with fast moving sports, is more of a hindrance than a positive. Smaller 1/3" or 2/3" sensors, three of them, will give you much more DOF to play with. It's no good capturing the big moments when they are soft or out of focus. He is also right about a servo zoom, trying to track frantic action with still lenses is not a fun time. Any decent broadcast type shoulder mount camera with a servo zoom would be better tool than your C100 MKII IMHO. Not impossible to shoot it with the Canon but you are going to miss shots and you are going to have a good amount of out of focus shots. EOS cinema camera is the wrong tool for the job IMHO and I own one.
 
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Thanks for the advice and info guys. Note that this is a two camera shoot. The zoom camera up top will be the primary camera, so for the sideline, I'm looking for a stylized shot. I think I'm going to give it a shot this upcoming week with the C100, and see how it goes. I'll report back. :) We're shooting every game this season, so if it doesn't go well, there's plenty of time to switch it up.
 
Just a quick update. I used my C100 with a Canon 70 - 200 F2.8 (model without IS). I got some really good looking and useable stuff. Again, this job as a whole is only for highlights. And I have another cam op with a zoom camera (Panasonic AC130A 22x zoom 1/3" sensor camera) on top of the pressbox. That footage will be the majority of what is used. So I don't have to worry about getting everything right. There are plenty of unusable shots, as expected, either because the play wasn't any good/ I was in a bad location/ or my shot was bad. Having IS will definitely increase the number of good shots that I get.

I'm going to try to get an IS version of the 70 - 200 for this week. I will also say that I was pretty tired by the end of the shoot. Moreso than I would have been with the Panasonic (which weighs about the same as the C100 with lens), I'm sure. The F4 model would probably be a better bet because it's lighter. And I stayed on the lower aperture most of the time. But for my work as a whole, I definitely want the F2.8 for long term. It'll also help that it's getting cooler.
 
Try the 70-200 mk II and put it on a monopod with a decent external monitor and you will be fine :)
 
@BrandonT, saw your vimeo so the result of your football footage are very nice (from my newbee point of view)
What Custom Pict. did you use ?
Saw some of your discussions in other threads and I'm interested to find a good modified custom pict Wide DR profile to fit with the Mark II.
Thanks for your feedback
 
nedcam said:
The right tool for the right job. Your non-game stuff looks great! C100's perfect for the interviews and all the b-roll. However, for the action I really think you need to go with a camera that has a real smooth servo zoom lens so when the player is coming at you a smooth zoom keeps your composition. So you can zoom with one hand and rack focus with the other. That's how it's been done for years, still lenses are like swimming with weights. If you watch football on TV there is always what's called a "framing zoom", you don't notice it because we grew up watching them. I used to do a lot of sports plus my kid was in soccer.

I'd suggest a used Panasonic HPX300 or something similar. The kit lens gives you a chest up at 55' so if you are at the top of the bleachers you'd need something longer.

Also, if the games are during the day having a rubber eyecup really helps since it will go on for hours.

But in sum, if you want the game footage stylized then yes, stick with the C100 but if they want to "see the play", and the public expects to see the play, then that means a camera with a smooth, zoomable lens. If it's The Big Game, God forbid if you didn't get The Big Play. These types of clients don't know nuthin' bout no technical stuff...They'll come rushing up and excitedly ask if you captured the action.
Click to expand...
I might add the Panasonic DVX200 would be perfect for the action stuff.....big chip, 13X zoom and with the big chip, you'd maintain that look that you have from the C100 vs a 2/3" chip camera.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Jim Martin said:
I might add the Panasonic DVX200 would be perfect for the action stuff.....big chip, 13X zoom and with the big chip, you'd maintain that look that you have from the C100 vs a 2/3" chip camera.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
Click to expand...

Yeah, I completely agree. I'd like to get a DVX200 and replace my Panasonic AC130A with it. But, I'm not looking to spend that much on that type of camera. Sony does have something that just came out with a 1" sensor. Price is really good. It's the Sony NX100. I'm possibly going to sell my AC130A when this job finishes, and keep that Sony in mind if I do need a zoom camera again down the line. I've posted some about this Sony on here, but it doesn't look like it's going to get much of a following.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1156385-REG/sony_hxr_nx100.html



billboquet said:
@BrandonT, saw your vimeo so the result of your football footage are very nice (from my newbee point of view)
What Custom Pict. did you use ?
Saw some of your discussions in other threads and I'm interested to find a good modified custom pict Wide DR profile to fit with the Mark II.
Thanks for your feedback
Click to expand...

Thank you, Bill! I really appreciate that! I've actually just been using the Cinema EOS profile that comes with the camera. There's certainly room for improvement, but I like how it looks and it works for me.



To follow up on this thread, here's the setup that I ended up going with. I have one cam op on top of the pressbox with my Panasonic AC130A (22x zoom 1/3" sensor camera), and a second cam op on the field with his GH4 with 14 - 140mm lens and a shoulder mount. In place of the cam op with his GH4, I shot with my C100 Mark II and a Canon 70 - 200mm F2.8 lens some, also. On one game, I borrowed someone's 70 - 200 F2.8 without IS. After that week, I bought my own-- but the IS version II model. Handheld. I have shot 3 games like this. Two that were in time for this video. And I've been thoroughly happy with the result. I wouldn't want to shoot it any other way after doing it. It is not easy. And you have to have multiple cameras going to be sure that you don't miss a play due to focus or because the 70 - 200mm lens isn't wide enough to get plays that are up close.

Here's the hype video. It only uses shots from the C100 Mark II and the GH4. The AC130A footage will be used for the end of the year highlight video. It should be fairly obvious what was shot with each one. There's also a few shots from last year to show the teams that they are playing. That was not my shoot, so don't judge me on that. I welcome comments and questions. Advice is certainly welcome, but I'm honestly not asking for full critiques. I'm happy with the end result, and the client was thoroughly happy with it.

https://vimeo.com/141211864

 
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